electric catamaran boat to set world record

[pcrussell50]

i look forward to learning what they have to say. I think its a cool project, im just not convinced on the practicality of it yet. Im sure with further advancements in techology, things will change one day, but there is still a ways to go.

Depends on what you consider to be practical. If all you are is a racer and not a day boater, the two good passes you get before battery performance dropoff might be all you need. If you are a recreational boater who goes on poker runs or such, then this won't cut it for you.

The math is pretty simple. E-Motion uses two 35KWh batteries, for a total of 70Kwh. That means you can make 70KW (about 94 horsepower), for one hour (if you have a full charge and take it to zero, without leaving any to motor on and off the trailer). You can divide it up any way you like. So for example, with the same battery, you can do 188 horsepower for half an hour (again leaving nothing left to motor on and off the trailer or through the no-wake zone. Or you can make 47 horsepower for two hours, taking the battery from 100% to zero.

So you do the arithmetic, and see if it is practical for you.

Weight is also a consideration. E-Motion does not share it's battery weight, but a Tesla 100KWh pack is over 1200 lbs just for the battery and nothing else. (It may be more. Tesla and the BEV community in general are not very up-front about things like battery weight). The new Hummer EV 200KWh battery pack is 3000lbs... Again, just for the battery and nothing else. You can extrapolate back to get a ballpark figure for an E-motion battery.

Kilowatts have nothing to do with electricity. A kilowatt is a unit of power just like a horsepower. One horsepower is 550 lbs.ft/sec. One kilowatt is 1.341 horsepower, or 738 lbs.ft/sec. Simple arithmetic, really. I have no idea how it came to be that the USA would use International units only for electrical power, but not for mechanical power. They are the same thing. Power is power.

HTH

===

Oh, I left out the non-planing hull use-case. E-Motion sells complete electric boat packages like this:
https://visionmarinetechnologies.com/volt-en/

Watch the video. If that is your thing in boating, today's electric is for you. They do not sell planing hull boats.

Peter

[Chaz]

It's nice to have CRUD on ignore, so I don't have to see his knee jerk CRAP response .
I'm sure it's just more victimhood and telling me how and where to post. As I said a few posts ago ... CRUD ... GFY .

[John S]

Very good questions. Cuda gave me the phone number of the guy behind the Hellkat project and told me to call him and that he would be happy to answer my questions. I have my doubts that he would want to answer the kinds of "trade secret" engineering questions (my education is in engineering), to a complete stranger over the phone, but Cuda says he's game. So after I get a coherent set of questions lined up, engineering questions, not marketing questions, I'll give the bloke a jingle and see what comes of it. I'll probably include some of the questions you have brought up here, too. And I'll report back here what he said. Including if he tells me to f-off when I start asking technical questions, which I wouldn't blame him for.

Of course there is no way a 32 foot cat lugging the weight of batteries went 109 mph on 360hp. We already know they overclocked something to get the power they needed. But what I keep scratching my head over is, why do they keep repeating the same, misleading mantra of 180hp E-Motion outboards, again and again and again? One might be able to see if their marketing person who understands no tech, screwed up once, the first time out. But it keeps happening... Either that or Cuda keeps reposting the same old information. :shrugs:

===



In a representative republic, like the USA is, people need to be as informed as possible and as least reliant on shamans who tell them what to believe as possible. Because the elected leadership here essentially responds to what people demand, based on their beliefs. If you are going to demand sacrifices, you should understand why. In the case of global warming, the two primary bits to know, are extraordinarily easy to know and understand. Nobody debates them on either side of the issue, because they are level one facts:

1) how much of our atmosphere is CO2? (42 one thousandths of one percent or our atmosphere is CO2)
2) what is the greenhouse effect? (a "blanket" that traps heat)

Once you know those two things, which are a few seconds of google searching, (which I learned in Australia in 7th grade, and I think American kids do too, somewhere around the same grade level), you can form you own thoughts. That way, when you look to your shamans for advice, at least you aren't going in empty.

-Peter

Seems like if you're hesitant to bother the man, but interested in the information, you could always email the contact address to their site. I do it all the time to vendors, with a pretty good success rate. Maybe even link this thread, so they have a reference to the relevance of your questions. Since you were once in the industry, you might even have some common connections, no? The performance boating community has always been pretty good to me. TBH, most performance junkies have always been happy to chat. I'm sure they would be happy to answer questions, as they are promoting their hard work and product.

[pcrussell50]

Seems like if you're hesitant to bother the man, but interested in the information, you could always email the contact address to their site. I do it all the time to vendors, with a pretty good success rate. Maybe even link this thread, so they have a reference to the relevance of your questions. Since you were once in the industry, you might even have some common connections, no? The performance boating community has always been pretty good to me. TBH, most performance junkies have always been happy to chat. I'm sure they would be happy to answer questions, as they are promoting their hard work and product.

For clarity... I was never in the industry. I have been a pilot for my whole career since I graduated from Uni. (San Diego State, since you're in SoCal). What I keep saying is that my degree is in engineering (mechanical engineering to be exact), so to me all this talk about Watts and Kilowatts and kilowatt hours is no mystery. It's straightforward energy and power. Doesn't matter if it's electrical or chemical or mechanical. It's simple arithmetic. Something you guys can do too. You don't have to put any faith in me. My goal is to give you the tools to add up your own numbers and come to your own conclusions. Or correct me if I've made a math error.

Most of the e-boating companies will give you enough information to run some simple numbers and decide if it's right for you. That way you don't have to trust on blind faith, their marketing materials, which are often either wrong, or overly optimistic. E-Motion's 70KWh battery holds enough for 94 horsepower (because 70KW is 94 hp), for one hour, with no reserves. Period. It doesn't matter what boat you put it in and you can divide it up any way you like. That means you can put 600hp to the Hellkat for nine minutes if you have arranged for a tow back to the docks. Or less than nine minutes if you want some left to motor back to the docks on your own. Probably fine for a flying kilometer or two. Probably not what you want for a poker run unless it's just displacing around the no-wake zone of your local harbor.

-Peter

[Chaz]

I have no idea how it came to be that the USA would use International units only for electrical power, but not for mechanical power.

In the 18th century "Scottsman James Watt" adopted the notion that lifting 33,000 lbs / 1 ft in one minute (550 lbs/ second) was equal to one HP.

So I would have to say that that we use an international derived system for both.

Hey brother, would ya hand me that other 1/2" wrench .. lucky # 13 ..

[pcrussell50]

In the 18th century "Scottsman James Watt" adopted the notion that lifting 33,000 lbs / 1 ft in one minute (550 lbs/ second) was equal to one HP.

So I would have to say that that we use an international derived system for both.

Hey brother, would ya hand me that other 1/2" wrench .. lucky # 13 ..

All true, mate.

Which is is what makes is so odd that Americans see “watts” (and kilowatts) as some strange thing that they only associate with electricity, when Watts are just simple units of power that are fully interchangeable with horsepower, (knowing that 1KW is 1.341 horsepower).

As an example, I was talking with someone about the power of some Euro version the 911Turbo and showed him the web site. It listed the power in Kilowatts. When he saw that he thought that Porsche had changed the 911 Turbo into a battery operated car. He had no idea that Kilowatts had any use outside of electricity, much less that they are simple units of power that can be used any place horsepower is used.

My wife’s 1600W hair dryer is 2.1hp. The 225 ProMax is 168KW. The E-Motion battery pack for battery boats can hold up to 70KWh on a full charge. So it can run a 70KW motor for one hour. The E-Motion outboard is 180hp which is 134KW. So it can run that motor for a little over 30 minutes.

-Peter

[Chaz]

All true, mate.

Which is is what makes is so odd that Americans see “watts” (and kilowatts) as some strange thing that they only associate with electricity, when Watts are just simple units of power that are fully interchangeable with horsepower, (knowing that 1KW is 1.341 horsepower).

It's because we were raised in the era of the Detroit HP wars ..

And there was a little guy that represented electricity ..

My wife’s 1600W hair dryer is 2.1hp. The 225 ProMax is 168KW. The E-Motion battery pack for battery boats can hold up to 70KWh on a full charge. So it can run a 70KW motor for one hour. The E-Motion outboard is 180hp which is 134KW. So it can run that motor for a little over 30 minutes.

-Peter

No one would want a 168 kw , 2.5 . Or take the time to do longer math to go from watts to kwatts to torque production. Thats why we just use it to see what a light bulb is rated at .. My eyes ain't what they use-ta be. Give me a box of them there 100w bulbs .. I cane't see $hiz wiff them 60's ..

HP is easyyyyy ... torque X RPM / 5252 will always equal HP ... and even them Europeans understand what the results of that simple formula mean in the real world ..

[PanRonnie]

168 Kw sounds better on your insureance form!
My skater was insured for the duration of 2 weeks
I filled in the expected speed in MPH, took some time for somebody to figure out what that was in Km/h
Lets just say i got a call

[Chaz]

Maxi-Pad ...

[Instigator]

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/indus...durance-record

Same guys out to set another “record”.

Chaz I think they’re coming to see you!

Longest leg of the 1000+ mile, 17 day trip is 81 mls on pontoon boat w/a full riff covered in solar panels!

Cocoa to Fort Pierce Fla!

Chaz, I think you and Gordon should go meet them for munch!

[pcrussell50]

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/indus...durance-record

Same guys out to set another “record”.

Chaz I think they’re coming to see you!

Longest leg of the 1000+ mile, 17 day trip is 81 mls on pontoon boat w/a full riff covered in solar panels!

Cocoa to Fort Pierce Fla!

Chaz, I think you and Gordon should go meet them for munch!

Yes, they mentioned last year that they wanted to go for an electric endurance record. I think they mentioned a specific distance. And I mentioned at the time that there was no way they were going to do it with a planing hull. I also suspected that they might have had to obtain a special purpose USCG waiver to overweight the hull with batteries. I hadn’t considered that they would use a pontoon and recharging via photovoltaic roof though. Clever. But if you recharge, is that still a record? I guess you can make a record out of anything you want.

Vision marine makes and sells 6mph displacement-only, calm water boats with little battery “trolling motor” style outboards. The photos in the article is inconclusive, but I doubt they are using their 180hp outboards, (which you can’t buy anyway because they don’t sell them to individuals). You can buy their “trolling motors” I think.

The math:
1050 miles in 17 days (408 hours), is 2.57 mph overall average. They are aiming for 10 mph according to the article. Which means If they use the 17 days they are planning for, that is 61 miles a day. If they go ten mph like they plan to, that is about 6 hours a day of motoring… With solar assistance. E-Motion has a 1000 lb, 70KWh battery, so they could do 10 KW/13.4 hp for seven hours to empty, or six hours to leave a little reserve. Of course, they would have to do a full recharge on solar after a day of motoring. Unless they brought another 1000 lb battery along then they could motor one while they charge the other

Bottom line… If they operate according to their stated plan: 17 days, 6 hours a day, solar assistance, and their little “trolling motor” outboards.

We could expand our calculations to estimate battery weights. Could be a lot, which was why I was wondering if they got a special temporary waiver from the USCG to overweight the hull. Or maybe pontoons can carry so much weight they are almost impossible to overweight? :shrugs: That might explain why they didn’t use one of their existing hulls, which are already optimized for low speed displacing, and their “trolling motor” outboards.

-Peter

[David - WI]

Ford set to lose $4.5 billion on electric vehicles this year, despite increased revenue

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technolo...reased-revenue

[PanRonnie]

Yes, they mentioned last year that they wanted to go for an electric endurance record. I think they mentioned a specific distance. And I mentioned at the time that there was no way they were going to do it with a planing hull. I also suspected that they might have had to obtain a special purpose USCG waiver to overweight the hull with batteries. I hadn’t considered that they would use a pontoon and recharging via photovoltaic roof though. Clever. But if you recharge, is that still a record? I guess you can make a record out of anything you want.

Vision marine makes and sells 6mph displacement-only, calm water boats with little battery “trolling motor” style outboards. The photos in the article is inconclusive, but I doubt they are using their 180hp outboards, (which you can’t buy anyway because they don’t sell them to individuals). You can buy their “trolling motors” I think.

The math:
1050 miles in 17 days (408 hours), is 2.57 mph overall average. They are aiming for 10 mph according to the article. Which means they can do it in a little over ten days (not 17) if they motor for ten hours a day. If they use the 17 days they are planning for, that is 61 miles a day. If they go ten mph like they plan to, that is about 6 hours a day of motoring… With solar assistance.

Bottom line… If they operate according to their stated plan: 17 days, 6 hours a day, solar assistance, and their little “trolling motor” outboards.

We could expand our calculations to estimate battery weights. Could be a lot, which was why I was wondering if they got a special temporary waiver from the USCG to overweight the hull. Or maybe pontoons can carry so much weight they are almost impossible to overweight? :shrugs: That might explain why they didn’t use one of their existing hulls, which are already optimized for low speed displacing, and their “trolling motor” outboards.

-Peter

For some reason i do find it an over complicated way to travel a long distance on water
A sail boat would be my choice to travel fossil fuel free
That is not to say i don't appricate the effort but there a times when you have to take a step back and just think " what am i doing!?" And make sure the idea still fits the solution

[Instigator]

I heard that.

Ohio just announced a 25$ million project to install 24 car charging stations through out the state.

So a million per!

People don’t seem to be asking this question, how does it work?

So your Tesla charge gets low on the way to grammas house, so you find a charging station and take an 8hr break??

Probably has the Uber chargers so it charges in 2 hrs and we pay the electric bills.

yay.

Ford set to lose $4.5 billion on electric vehicles this year, despite increased revenue

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technolo...reased-revenue

[CUDA]

https://governor.ohio.gov/media/news...rging-stations


<main id="odx-main-content" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><article class="odx-content odx-content--news news" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><header id="odx-content-header" class="odx-content__header" style="box-sizing: border-box;">Governor DeWine Announces Locations for Interstate Electric Vehicle Charging Stations


</header>July 13, 2023
<section id="js-odx-content__body" class="odx-content__body" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-bottom: 40px;">(COLUMBUS, Ohio) - Ohio Governor Mike DeWine announced the future locations of 27 new electric vehicle (EV) charging stations that will be installed along Ohio interstates, making Ohio the first state in the nation to announce charging station sites that will be developed as part of the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) Program.
“This is an exciting time for Ohio as we continue to lead the charge in electric mobility,” said Governor DeWine. “As more Ohioans purchase EVs, this statewide network of chargers will ensure that our transportation infrastructure is prepared to accommodate these drivers, as well as visitors who travel to Ohio to see all that our great state has to offer.”
During a news conference today with Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) Director Jack Marchbanks, DriveOhio Executive Director Preeti Choudhary, and Federal Highway Administration Deputy Administrator Andrew Rogers, Governor DeWine announced that the state will award more than $18 million in NEVI funds for 27 electric vehicle fast charging stations along seven of Ohio’s interstate corridors, including I-70, I-71, I-74, I-75, I-76, I-77, and I-90.

The $18 million in NEVI funding will be matched with nearly $6 million from the private entities selected to install and operate the new EV fast charging stations, including Pilot Travel Centers, TH Midwest, Francis Energy, Meijer Stores, EVgo Services, ChargeNet Stations, and Equilon/Shell.
Winning proposals include site plans at existing travel centers, grocery stores, retail shops, a hotel, a restaurant, and a bank. The new charging stations will be located every 50 miles and will be situated no more than 1 mile off the interstate. Each site will include at least four charger ports with 150 kilowatts for each port and will be accessible 24/7 with easy access to food, drink, and restrooms.
“As the mix of automobiles on the road changes, we must adapt our infrastructure, and EV charging stations are a part of improving customer service for Ohio drivers and businesses,” said Lt. Governor Jon Husted. “The automobile industry is a proud part of our history, and with new investments in battery plants and EVs, the auto industry can be a source of jobs and prosperity for our future.”

DETAILS: Full List of 27 EV Charging Station Locations

Ohio was the first state in the nation to release a request for charging station proposals last year, which was a strategic move to put Ohio ahead of other states for sought-after equipment and specialized technicians to install the stations. This fall, ODOT will issue its second request for proposals to install an additional 16 charging stations along Ohio’s major U.S. and state routes.
“Our strategy throughout this process has been intentional. Each location was bid as a separate project to give Ohio a competitive advantage, stretching every dollar available to us,” said Marchbanks. “We’re just getting started. We anticipate significant funding left over after the first two rounds that can be used to further cement Ohio’s place in this transportation revolution.”
DriveOhio, a division of ODOT, will oversee the implementation of the new charging stations, which are expected to be in operation next year. The new fast charging stations will join 13 preexisting federally compliant charging stations in Ohio.

VIDEO: Preexisting EV Charging Station on Hilliard-Rome Road (Columbus)

“One of the major concerns for consumers considering purchasing an electric vehicle has been ‘Can I find a place to charge it?’ This is a major step in removing that barrier and making sure that in Ohio, the answer is yes,” said Choudhary.
There are currently about 53,000 registered electric vehicles in Ohio, with that number expected to significantly increase in coming years. In total, Ohio will receive $140 million in NEVI funds over the next five years to support the installation of EV charging stations across the state. Once charging stations are installed on Ohio's interstates, state routes, and U.S. routes, the remaining funding will be used to install charging stations in other areas.
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<aside class="odx-content-column odx-content-column--right" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 55px;"><section class="margin-bottom-sm" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-bottom: 20px;">Share this



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