2 stroke ?

[skialot2]

It's not what the site was built around. But the world has evolved. So has this site. Little lightweight boats are no longer being built. It is now the big boats that scream and fly. And some are faster than ever. If this site is going to survive, it needs to adapt with the times to attract new members. You are calling me a boomer like it is an insult. This site is full of boomers. That means you just insulted most of the members here. But I am not a boomer. I am Gen X.

[JPEROG]

This is why Mercury ended the two stoke: hear it from the man himself....https://youtu.be/dVW6bJdqvKc

Listen to what Fred says "this is the guy that designed the alien cowl, developed two stroke race motors and two stroke performance snowmobile motors"-two strokes were his wheelhouse. The manufactures built bigger boats, and the EPA tightened everything down on them leaving no market for the 2 stroke outboard.

Joe

[msm]

Thanks for the link Joe.

Those two segments on Fred Kiekhaefer's entire work history were entertaining, informative and provided a great history of Mercury.

[LakeFever]

Great link Joe it sure is interesting to hear from the source. The key difference from that position is you can hear the urgency that is ever present in business because it’s not just about the product that can be made; it’s all about the product that will and does sell. Interesting bit about the diesel there I had not heard of that before. He did suggest that from before the opti motors he wanted to ditch two strokes for epa reasons not market reasons which is what I said was the core issue bringing about the premature death of the two stroke.

Anyways all that aside, Rotax and BRP met and exceeded the epa standards with their two stroke so it can and has been done. The bigger issue as I see it again is the impact of all two stroke boat motors is so small, it’s almost immeasurable differences in overall emission output. Even more to the point it’s barking up the wrong tree entirely imo. If the science community had of focused on results based equipment and solutions instead of acting commie style by coercing manufacturers to bend to their will? We wouldn’t have any issues at all.

When out in the sun? Wear sunblock. Problem solved. Todays scientists want to blame the sun, force the sun to change its ways and then heap a massive layered tax on the sun for being the sun meanwhile everyone is still getting sun burned. That’s how the climatards ran their game. Pathetic

[JPEROG]

Fred is a great guy and as you can tell from his interviews "not an easy life" but very driven to gain his dads acceptance and therefore was very successful in many business ventures. When he and Eric were begging mercury for the funding of the QC4 project, he told them that he would put it up if they didn't. Obviously he understands risk and reward go hand and hand. Pull up segment one and watch it if you have a chance. Think of what could have been if got had picked up the contract with bombardier and taken the place of Rotax. Pretty cool guy for sure.

The first time I ever got to spend any time with him was in 95 or 96 we did a poker run from West Michigan to Chicago and Fred had a 41 Apache with the "then new #6 drives" painted bright yellow. He told everyone there that he dared them to be called lemons.

If you look up Ray and Myricks podcast on youtube, (boats and bros), they have some very interesting people from the boating community as guest.

Joe

[Greg G]

I always wondered if the EPA stuff had not happened if the 2 stroke would have continued to improve and be available

[LakeFever]

he sure is a regular sounding guy I found that clip very interesting. I will check out others for sure. I’d love to have seen someone hand Smokey Yunick a bunch of money and set him upon building the ultimate two stroke. Who knows maybe one day some Musk type fellow will come along and do just that

[Brad Zastrow]

Every time a thread is started about two strokes everyone complains about the EPA and Mercury for not building them. Did you watch the video with Fred? I have also met him at the Mercury Racing plant. Brilliant guy. The public does not want them plain and simple. It is not the EPA that killed them. Even the resale value of a boat with four-strokes is much higher than the same hull with two strokes. It is no longer 1985. Since the four strokes came out the market has shifted to outboards on many new boats. I used to go to Poker Runs 25 years ago and would be the only outboard boat there with 80-100 boat in attendance. I had a 30 Motion with triple 280's. Now many poker runs are 50% outboards (all the new boats) and older I/O's. It is a new day. In many ways the four stroke o/b's have saved the performance boat industry. Many people me included, grew weary of the maintenance of fast inboard boats. I also was tired to blowing and rebuilding two-strokes.

[mercrazy]

Bottom line is 4 stroke engines are more reliable for a longer time. They can digest bad gas without melting pistons. They’re not as messy and dummies don’t have to worry about mixing the right amount of oil. If I had to make a living on a boat, I would probably use one. BUT I don’t. I boat for fun and thrills. I’ll use my old screamin 2.5s til I’m done.

[RiverRat71]

[JPEROG]

Every time a thread is started about two strokes everyone complains about the EPA and Mercury for not building them. Did you watch the video with Fred? I have also met him at the Mercury Racing plant. Brilliant guy. The public does not want them plain and simple. It is not the EPA that killed them. Even the resale value of a boat with four-strokes is much higher than the same hull with two strokes. It is no longer 1985. Since the four strokes came out the market has shifted to outboards on many new boats. I used to go to Poker Runs 25 years ago and would be the only outboard boat there with 80-100 boat in attendance. I had a 30 Motion with triple 280's. Now many poker runs are 50% outboards (all the new boats) and older I/O's. It is a new day. In many ways the four stroke o/b's have saved the performance boat industry. Many people me included, grew weary of the maintenance of fast inboard boats. I also was tired to blowing and rebuilding two-strokes.

Brad,

Show these guys the picture of my old smoking gun that Mike sent you. I will never look back....

Joe

[wettek]

Every time a thread is started about two strokes everyone complains about the EPA and Mercury for not building them. Did you watch the video with Fred? I have also met him at the Mercury Racing plant. Brilliant guy. The public does not want them plain and simple. It is not the EPA that killed them. Even the resale value of a boat with four-strokes is much higher than the same hull with two strokes. It is no longer 1985. Since the four strokes came out the market has shifted to outboards on many new boats. I used to go to Poker Runs 25 years ago and would be the only outboard boat there with 80-100 boat in attendance. I had a 30 Motion with triple 280's. Now many poker runs are 50% outboards (all the new boats) and older I/O's. It is a new day. In many ways the four stroke o/b's have saved the performance boat industry. Many people me included, grew weary of the maintenance of fast inboard boats. I also was tired to blowing and rebuilding two-strokes.

I beg to differ. A lot of the boating public does still want 2 strokes, the majority of us are not millionaires who have the big double, triple, quad, quint monster boats who can afford to buy and float the big heavy 4 strokes. There are still a lot of us who have smaller boats that suit our purposes that don't want the extra size and weight of the 4 strokes. Just because they work for you doesn't make your opinion correct or let you dictate to people what they want. If you want a big flash pose boat for your poker runs, knock yourself out with as many 4 strokes as you want.

[RiverRat71]

I beg to differ. A lot of the boating public does still want 2 strokes, the majority of us are not millionaires who have the big double, triple, quad, quint monster boats who can afford to buy and float the big heavy 4 strokes. There are still a lot of us who have smaller boats that suit our purposes that don't want the extra size and weight of the 4 strokes. Just because they work for you doesn't make your opinion correct or let you dictate to people what they want. If you want a big flash pose boat for your poker runs, knock yourself out with as many 4 strokes as you want.

If/when the pendulum swings & the small boats are cool again maybe the rich will let us have light 2 smokes again. Until then suck it up. RR

[DangerNewb]

If/when the pendulum swings & the small boats are cool again maybe the rich will let us have light 2 smokes again. Until then suck it up. RR

Be nice! According to AOC I may be rich. Most of us probably. I still say my stv's with 2.5's are the most fun you can have on the water. Have a v8 and had 2 more. They're nice and all. But 2.5's are still a lot of fun. And I've never had one "blow up".

[RiverRat71]

Be nice! According to AOC I may be rich. Most of us probably. I still say my stv's with 2.5's are the most fun you can have on the water. Have a v8 and had 2 more. They're nice and all. But 2.5's are still a lot of fun. And I've never had one "blow up".

My bad. Let me rephrase... huhmm.. when all the "cool guys" decide that small boats are cool again & figure out that all the "cool engines" will sink their new cool ass small boat then maybe their collective greatness will grant the earth a lighter 2 stroke with proven performance to all of mankind. Sound better? RR