15 400R news

[Double Rigged]

For some of us it is not about getting whipped as you say. Maybe some just like having outboards and do not care about going 150mph. If I did I would have bought one.
I could be wrong but with all new outboard models being built and a LONG list of Inboard boats for sale that they cannot give away maybe times are changing.
I know of more than a couple of big players building OB boats currently.
Just sayin. That is what makes our sport so much fun. There are a lot of options for everyone.
And like me we all have our opinions.

[Chaz]

No apology necessary . I just have a bad habit of reading between the lines ...
I respect your opinion , but felt you were just a bit too vague on your evaluation , especially with all the mixed stories about the 400 out there.

The bass boat deal needed a smaller wheel to not feel like it was tied in a knot . But went on the limiter way before reaching any note worthy numbers.
A big wheel tied it up to the point it could not pull to the redline , even with the 1.75 gear.
It was dismissed as a 700 pound , 2.5 Litre 4 stroke with not enough boost to make up the difference .

I'm not sure I understand your answer fully , bare with me , I'm old ...
Lets throw out grinding on the hull , raising them past the point that they can find water themselfs , one off prop's etc.
For what it was (300xs) and for what it is now (400's ). Are you saying it's 15 numbers faster with the 400's ?

I agree 120 gallons of fuel is a lot . But it's closer to the real world than 5 gallons in each side , taking everything out that's not bolted down , not eating for a week , and about crashing the boat in mineshaft air , looking for the last flicker on the GPS , going home and adding 5 MPH to the story . And then claim that , as what a boat runs ..

There is only so much you can do with "set-up" . It still come's down to power to weight ratio , aero / hydro co-efficiency of drag . And as you and Joe both stated , the best guys did the set-up.

These "things" form a triangle between the transom bracket , Howitzer Barrel ... err .. I mean swivel pin and the trim unit . Making the can 15" was pretty easy once I had a fixture built . The real fun begins tomorrow .. well , later this morning , making the triangle about half the size ....

For all the I.O. lover's , this here looks like one of them new fangled Merka-reez .. ... >

[Instigator]

What I'm reading, after writing the rather large check for the motors, hiring the best set up guys in the country, best prop guys in the country, with an open check book........., they have potential?

So if you "ONLY" screw the motors on, you lose?

[Instigator]

[QUOTE=Chaz;

The bass boat deal needed a smaller wheel to not feel like it was tied in a knot . But went on the limiter way before reaching any note worthy numbers.
A big wheel tied it up to the point it could not pull to the redline , even with the 1.75 gear.
It was dismissed as a 700 pound , 2.5 Litre 4 stroke with not enough boost to make up the difference .

[/QUOTE]

How about Brent and the boys w/their wicked fast flats boats?
Their performance validates their abilities and that motor was off their boat quicker than a skirt off a $10 hooker???

[Double Rigged]

Chaz
Yes real world numbers the motor are 15mph faster than the 300xs package and that is with weight in the boat and the speed was repeated over again many times.

Lastly the thing is there is a very limited supply of propellers out there right now for this motor. I am working with Dave Dewald with my set up and he is really busy trying different things for all the Xcat boats. Those guys will figure it out. It is not only about pitch but the diameter factors in as well.
The props for this boat were provided by Mercury and all big diameter.

Regarding the 300x I also agree with you that the numbers are a lot closer. My boat is at least 10mph faster than the 300xs version as well. Keep in mind most guys on this site are hands on guys that can do a lot of engine work themselves. Most of the people out there do not have that ability. For someone who wants a nice package and 5yrs of warranty with no headaches it is a good option. Not sure if you all know but Mercury expanded it facility over 35,000 sq ft to help build Verados. Sales for those motors are off the chart for them.

[Onetime]

How about Brent and the boys w/their wicked fast flats boats?
Their performance validates their abilities and that motor was off their boat quicker than a skirt off a $10 hooker???

Got a feeling that's the bass boat Chaz is referring to.

Probably like most anything new it will take a bit before they're accepted. Remember when the Opti's first came out, you couldn't give the race versions away. Then they became the norm for a while until this type of a package becomes the norm.
As to the cost, that's the times. Everything is costing rediculus amounts of money.

[baja200merk]

Brents biggest complaint about the 400r was the lack of props available. He wasn't willing to start over and do the hard work with no help from Merc. Never mind all the money that needed to be spent after just paying 30k for an outboard.

[Instigator]

Got a feeling that's the bass boat Chaz is referring to.

There was another one, more recently. A Bullet I think.

Owner and crew were expecting one teens and last I saw they hadn't busted a 100 yet.

[Instigator]

Brents biggest complaint about the 400r was the lack of props available. He wasn't willing to start over and do the hard work with no help from Merc. Never mind all the money that needed to be spent after just paying 30k for an outboard.

So they spent that kind of money then gave up cuz they didn't want to buy wheels???
Make sense to you? Me neither.

I've heard conspiracy theories

[Rayzor]

Chaz
Yes real world numbers the motor are 15mph faster than the 300xs package and that is with weight in the boat and the speed was repeated over again many times.

Lastly the thing is there is a very limited supply of propellers out there right now for this motor. I am working with Dave Dewald with my set up and he is really busy trying different things for all the Xcat boats. Those guys will figure it out. It is not only about pitch but the diameter factors in as well.
The props for this boat were provided by Mercury and all big diameter.

Regarding the 300x I also agree with you that the numbers are a lot closer. My boat is at least 10mph faster than the 300xs version as well. Keep in mind most guys on this site are hands on guys that can do a lot of engine work themselves. Most of the people out there do not have that ability. For someone who wants a nice package and 5yrs of warranty with no headaches it is a good option. Not sure if you all know but Mercury expanded it facility over 35,000 sq ft to help build Verados. Sales for those motors are off the chart for them.

So that 30 w/ 400Rs is going 120??? I had a 30 at my dock for a season in 2007 that went 104 w/ bone stock XSs. Why is there so much smoke and mirrors concerning the speed with these new 400Rs? Why doesn't somebody go out and make a video like I did of my 28 running 120 so that we can all see the truth? I'm not even a tech guy, and I figured out how to do it! Pete said the 400Rs only gained 4mph on a customers Skater, so I'm not sure why he'd say that if they gained 15? All I know is the only realistic speeds I've read of so far is the 32DW (full canopy boat) running 124 and Steve's 318 Skater running 114. Both of these numbers look to me to be a true gain of about 7-10mph over stock XSs, which is what the math correlates out to when you run the numbers considering HP and weight differences between the two motor combinations. I haven't read of any good speeds so far on any of the singles out there with 400Rs on them, which makes sense to me, as the motors are just too big and heavy for small boats. I'm certain that in time guys will figure things out, but they sure aren't a game changer yet imo.

[baja200merk]

So they spent that kind of money then gave up cuz they didn't want to buy wheels???
Make sense to you? Me neither.

I've heard conspiracy theories

No they would have to competley start over with setup and there wasn't much available for the big Gearcase. Seemed like the time/effort wouldn't be worth the gains. Atleast that's what I got out of it when I talked to him.

No doubt the 400s faster just not an ideal engine for some boats. If the 3.0 sporty would survive it might help but even bushs Merc 3.4 was pushing the pinion out the side at 400+hp with big props.

[Double Rigged]

Dale,
I cannot comment on what boats run up north or other parts of the country as there are differences what us S. FL guys have been seeing all along regarding speeds where we live.
I agree on video documentation and am sure he will post some. I have seen videos of 30' Skaters running. However the videos I have seen are them running in the mid 90's with people, fuel etc in S. Fl.
Never seen any videos of any running 104mph besides mine! I agree with you 100 percent videos are the best documentation but there are still variables due to conditions and locations. I think in this case that maybe the supercharged motor does not fall off in HP like a two stroke based conditions that we see down here. Maybe that is why the spread was higher than 10mph???
Again was just trying to share what I saw and maybe help someone make a better decision on whats best for them regarding these motors.
Let me ask you though. Do you not agree that a classic deck 308 is lighter than Steve's boat at 5500lbs. I did the math on mine based on what Peter told me and came up with about 4600lbs.
I would bet a bunch of money Steve's boat w/300xs's would have trouble breaking a 100mph it ran 114mph. Sam Jirik is a friend of mine and his 30' Skater runs mid 90s on a normal day another flat deck with wraparound windshield. Nothing close to 104mph. No one ever said this boat ran 120mph. I do think if I decided to go the 400r route down the road with my set up and doing the math it is possible that my 308 would be very close to running 120 with an additional 140hp. I run 108-110 with 2 people/60 gallons fuel/coolers/tool boxe etc and not done yet. Waiting on some bigger pitch props from Dave.
I guess only time and the truth will tell.
Problem with these forums is there is always lots of big numbers and very little documentation like we do. I only believe a small amount of what I read and take that into consideration.
You and I both know in the end it is HP/Weight/Set up = MPH. Simple is that. How you get it to the water is the tough part.

[Chaz]

The bay area seem's to run along the same parallel as Maryland . Budd's Creek and Englishtown N.J. are notorious for record runs in other forms of motorsports.
The frost line is between Vero Beach and Melbourne , which is still a good 1100 miles south of those who have mineshaft conditions to run in . It's not that their numbers are invalid , but to factor in the conditions of the swamp , they run no better , no worse than anyone else ...

[Double Rigged]

Cool post. Just to clarify I am not disputing Dale's friends boat 104mph. I am sure it did as I believe what he says. But like you say Chaz we both are in very different areas.

[Chaz]

Cool post. Just to clarify I am not disputing Dale's friends boat 104mph. I am sure it did as I believe what he says.

I'll go head an dispute it .... just because that's what he would expect from me , and I'd hate to disappoint ...