Tuff Boat on Long Island

**RobF** · 08-10-2015, 06:46 PM

We discussed being easier to notch it then put it back, but I can shorten or make it larger, i should even have the piece i cut out still outside in the yard. The tuff has a very rounded notch and a perfectly flat pad, maybe dirk can share the difference when he is up and running

typingon this websit is brutal, like every othe letter gets cut off lol

**vnemous** · 08-10-2015, 06:48 PM

No I don't need the notch replace, just some cosmetics but I wouldn't have anyone down here do it. I will shoot a pic and pm to you when I have the cover off. Back to the Tuff sorry.

**David** · 08-10-2015, 07:30 PM

I'm surprised your dealings with Mark went south. I've met Mark and talked to him. He even helped me learn to drive my SS2000 when I first bought it. And he let me drive a Tuff 21. I always though he was very nice, knowledgeable and helpful.

I still haven't won the lotto, so there is no Tuff on my marine railway.

No claim to expertise here, but the first Tuff went over 100 and I'm pretty sure it wasn't infused. It was a 2005 and I see it on my lake from time to time.

**joneill** · 08-10-2015, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Dirk Pitt

Im not going to fight joeys battles, but one thing is for sure his talent as a rigger setup man, throttleman, mechanic, can not be disbuted, if anyone doubts his talent maybe one should call peter from skater, or johhny t, or Reggi Fountain, or stewart Hyme,or even me, once again his accomplishments speak for themselves..... as far as Tuff no one is disbuting the quality of the boat, its one of the finest specimans I have ever seen..

For sure if he himself does the rigging it is a work of art, and cant talk bad about his accomplishments but everyone knows the reason he cant keep a shop or customers or manufacturers. Bad stories tend to be talked about more than good stories, either way i hope everything works out on your beautiful boat. I started with omc and love them.

**Dirk Pitt** · 08-10-2015, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by David

I'm surprised your dealings with Mark went south. I've met Mark and talked to him. He even helped me learn to drive my SS2000 when I first bought it. And he let me drive a Tuff 21. I always though he was very nice, knowledgeable and helpful.

I still haven't won the lotto, so there is no Tuff on my marine railway.

No claim to expertise here, but the first Tuff went over 100 and I'm pretty sure it wasn't infused. It was a 2005 and I see it on my lake from time to time.

he was probably setting you up the big one

**Dirk Pitt** · 08-10-2015, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by joneill

For sure if he himself does the rigging it is a work of art, and cant talk bad about his accomplishments but everyone knows the reason he cant keep a shop or customers or manufacturers. Bad stories tend to be talked about more than good stories, either way i hope everything works out on your beautiful boat. I started with omc and love them.

did he ever do any work for you? "if he does his own rigging", your kidding right, ?????? but no doubt business is not his forte"

**Greg G** · 08-10-2015, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by David

I'm surprised your dealings with Mark went south. I've met Mark and talked to him. He even helped me learn to drive my SS2000 when I first bought it. And he let me drive a Tuff 21. I always though he was very nice, knowledgeable and helpful.

No claim to expertise here, but the first Tuff went over 100 and I'm pretty sure it wasn't infused. It was a 2005 and I see it on my lake from time to time.

If I'm not mistaken Tuff actually built there first "production" 21 footer in 2003 and you are correct with 300X it ran an honest 100 on radar. Is the 2005 that is on your lake also rigged with a Merc 300X? I believe they added infusion (RBT can confirm this) in 2012. I'm getting a bit of a chuckle out of the comments about the hulls running 18"+ of setback to get past the triple digits. They have been in business making this model for 13 years so clearly they don't make ambiguous business bull****ery a common practice. I suspect they have built maybe 24 of these hulls in those 13 years, making incremental improvements to the design along the way. Everyone rigged with a Mercury 300X or 300XS ran 100mph or faster. Did even one of there 21's run 18" of setback? I highly doubt it. It looks like everyone they have built is less. Now, to run 106 with 8" of setback? Wouldn't that set-up take any true rough water in stride? And I mean real rough water, 3s and 4s and coming from all directions with a nice 20 knot blow.

Take a poll of the setback that each of the GSB 21 SOB's run for setback as a compare to 106mph and 8" on a Unicorn.

Give the company and the founder credit for building the fastest rough water SOB 21 for 13 years straight and improving it along the way.

Now to the matter at hand, can a bone stock fat lower unit BRP 300 get Dirk a number he is happy with like 91 or 95mph? I believe that the gearcase alone is 54% of a lower units total parasitic drag in this type of application. Don't spend much time worrying about the perfect notch design or some guy named Joe or taking 90 lbs out of an interior to gain 1mph.

The bullet is public enemy #1 in this Hunt for Red October once the true weight of the boat is published. Interesting project going into Winter. You can run right to Christmas before the weather gets nasty.

**mragu** · 08-11-2015, 01:24 AM

I want my boat back

**dnelson964** · 08-11-2015, 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by XstreamVking

Maybe tweak the area where the notch intersects the trans with some bondo and make a lil hook on it. 1/8'' or so. If it works, replace with gell.

That's a little Allison trick......sometimes tiny changes can have a powerful effect on the water. Good idea

**dnelson964** · 08-11-2015, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by 0rabbit7

The guy driving this one said it does 106 with some kind of prop and 99 with the non-labbed version. I forgot which kind unfortunately

Labbing at times can slow you or at times increase your speed.... the black art of blade tweaking changes between different prop gurus on various wheels has been an interesting experience for me. But +2 mph is about the most to expect unless there are other factors added at a rare moment in time like possibly a +4-+5 mph rip pulling you along too ?

It's not easy to reduplicate your fastest prop....I hope he hasn't lost or broken it.

I think the 'white' color helped out the top speed....

___________________________________________________________________________________

mragu

Supporting Vendor

<dl class="userstats"><dt>Join Date</dt><dd>Jan 2004
</dd></dl>

"I want my boat back

"

I was wondering when you would finally get 'bit' again and want it back.......

**Dirk Pitt** · 08-11-2015, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by Greg G

If I'm not mistaken Tuff actually built there first "production" 21 footer in 2003 and you are correct with 300X it ran an honest 100 on radar. Is the 2005 that is on your lake also rigged with a Merc 300X? I believe they added infusion (RBT can confirm this) in 2012. I'm getting a bit of a chuckle out of the comments about the hulls running 18"+ of setback to get past the triple digits. They have been in business making this model for 13 years so clearly they don't make ambiguous business bull****ery a common practice. I suspect they have built maybe 24 of these hulls in those 13 years, making incremental improvements to the design along the way. Everyone rigged with a Mercury 300X or 300XS ran 100mph or faster. Did even one of there 21's run 18" of setback? I highly doubt it. It looks like everyone they have built is less. Now, to run 106 with 8" of setback? Wouldn't that set-up take any true rough water in stride? And I mean real rough water, 3s and 4s and coming from all directions with a nice 20 knot blow.

Take a poll of the setback that each of the GSB 21 SOB's run for setback as a compare to 106mph and 8" on a Unicorn.

Give the company and the founder credit for building the fastest rough water SOB 21 for 13 years straight and improving it along the way.

Now to the matter at hand, can a bone stock fat lower unit BRP 300 get Dirk a number he is happy with like 91 or 95mph? I believe that the gearcase alone is 54% of a lower units total parasitic drag in this type of application. Don't spend much time worrying about the perfect notch design or some guy named Joe or taking 90 lbs out of an interior to gain 1mph.

The bullet is public enemy #1 in this Hunt for Red October once the true weight of the boat is published. Interesting project going into Winter. You can run right to Christmas before the weather gets nasty.

I certainly never disagreed with Tuffs accomplishments,but really when you think about that, what did he do ? copy Linders design?, really?, give the credit to the right person,you doubt anyone ran with 18" of setback? you really should do a little more investigating, because the one Im sitting with has 18" of setback, and the blue one has at least 20" of setback, so thats 2, now what?, best rough water ? where ? on a rough lake?, with that type of setback you can drive it in 2 to 4's I hope you have a chase boat, , and do really think Im the only one that has bad business dealing with him?, do you think I havent spoken to other people that have had sour business dealings with him,? do you think I havent spoken to poeple that have had direct contact with him in other capacities?, and feel he should stick to building boats, because he sucks in business, becauce if you do your wrong about that too. my mail box is full, theres no bull**** "the gearcase alone is 54% of a lower units total parasitic drag in this type of application" wtf where do get this sh*t from?

**Dirk Pitt** · 08-11-2015, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by dnelson964

Labbing at times can slow you or at times increase your speed.... the black art of blade tweaking changes between different prop gurus on various wheels has been an interesting experience for me. But +2 mph is about the most to expect unless there are other factors added at a rare moment in time like possibly a +4-+5 mph rip pulling you along too ?

It's not easy to reduplicate your fastest prop....I hope he hasn't lost or broken it.

I think the 'white' color helped out the top speed....

___________________________________________________________________________________

mragu

Supporting Vendor

<dl class="userstats"><dt>Join Date</dt><dd>Jan 2004
</dd></dl>

"I want my boat back

"

I was wondering when you would finally get 'bit' again and want it back.......

Doc your so right props are such a black art, at one time I have had a wall full of them each one had a different personality,
do you remember Trick went the fastest with a non labbed prop? go figure

**powerabout** · 08-11-2015, 06:12 AM

ask any prop tuner when someone brings in their best prop to make a copy ( not possible) they scan them and all 3 blades are different, same story I have been hearing for 40 years

**XstreamVking** · 08-11-2015, 06:18 AM

Labbed means thinned in my book and we know what that does to a props longevity. I have a lightning et that's labbed by merc and it is so thin it rings like a bell when thumped with your finger. Merc sez 2-3 mph is best you can hope for. It is a "lively" prop, and I think the thin blade flexing contributes to the feel.