2 stroke ?

**powerabout** · 03-03-2025, 06:50 PM

E-tec conversion kit for 2.5's, that would fix everything
( then synthetic fuel)

**CUDA** · 03-03-2025, 06:54 PM

Diesel, or go home

**David** · 03-03-2025, 08:44 PM

I think the E-Tec technology might have been the best of the DI two strokes, and potentially better than a 4 stroke. Certainly nothing 4 stroke on the market yet is better power to weight than our 150HO or my 200XS. Yes, a lot of money has made the big engines better than the 300XS.

Although I don't think emissions killed two strokes, the EPA rules certainly made the 2 strokes more complicated. My 200XS is a lot more complex than the 225 Promax that it replaced. The Etec is simpler than the Opti but still more complex. That trade off is not terrible. Those are great motors, and polluting less is not a bad thing for the water.

It's not clear to me that having the legislature instead of the EPA set emissions standards would be better. it's very difficult to get legislation passed. What would stop a filibuster in the senate?

**Brad Zastrow** · 03-03-2025, 08:46 PM

I think everyone is missing one large obstacle to the two-stroke engines. The general public does not want them. The handful of people that desire a light two stroke is not enough to get a manufacturer to make them.

**skialot2** · 03-03-2025, 09:28 PM

Didn't we have this conversation before? There is zero chance of 2 stroke outboards coming back. They didn't go away because of bureaucratic bull crap. They went away because of consumer preference. The bulk of people chose 4 strokes over 2 strokes. Everybody's car has a 4 stroke engine. People like what they are familiar with. Plus, the boats of today don't care about an extra 50-100 lbs. of motor.

**pcrussell50** · 03-09-2025, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by LakeFever

Two stroke dirt bikes are considerably safer than four strokes too. I know two albeit rather small young lads mangled up from trying to horse a big yami four stroker around. Too much weight vs the two strokes. There’s also the argument to be made that a two stroke takes substantially less energy to build because there is so far fewer parts and less manufacturing pollution.

It’s totally ok though don’t let sense or reason enter into any of this. That never seems to matter anymore it’s all political hype and nothing else that makes it all happen. Utter nonsense

Two-strokes are also easier for the average bloke to keep running by way of simple repairs. You could hone and re-ring a Honda 250cc motocross bike in a couple of hours.

And of course the longer a thing stays in service, the less there is of the most wasteful and resource-intensive thing man does... Which is to create new things from scratch, to replace old things that would otherwise still be in service.

-Peter

**pcrussell50** · 03-11-2025, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow

I think everyone is missing one large obstacle to the two-stroke engines. The general public does not want them. The handful of people that desire a light two stroke is not enough to get a manufacturer to make them.

Believe it or not, I agree that you're probably right, though the reason needs fleshing out a bit... There is a (ridiculous and unearned, IMHO) stigma attached to two-strokes. It colors people's minds. That coupled with the refined idle of a four-stroke* and people's growing detachment in understanding, from how the things in their lives actually work, and you get your disposable four-stroke society. Why have a two stroke that you could keep running for the rest of your life with cheap repairs, when you can buy four brand new disposable four strokes over the same period?

Case in point: My two nephews, 20 and 22. Standard all-American boys, varsity football in HS, scholarships in University, etc... They are mad about fishing, and super knowledgeable and capable fishermen. By their early teens, they still didn't even know how to put air their bicycle tires. Their dad had to do it for them. They will both own several outboard boats with brand new four strokes over their lives, and the minute a motor eats a piston or the timing belt skips one too many teeth, they will have a brand new motor, and the junkyard will become that much fuller. And as long as people know no better, there will be No market for two strokes, in a customer base like that, to whom a motor is indistinguishable from magic, in terms of how much they understand it.

*I say refined idle, because my FourStroke while nearly silent and smoke-free at idle, is not at all particularly quiet while under way, planing.

-Peter

**mercrazy** · 03-11-2025, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow

I think everyone is missing one large obstacle to the two-stroke engines. The general public does not want them. The handful of people that desire a light two stroke is not enough to get a manufacturer to make them.

One other reason. I fished in draw bass tournaments for years. When they filled up with gas, they would get a panicked look on their face because they couldn’t figure out how much oil to add. And it’s messy and another thing to deal with. I almost bought a 4 stroke when they first came out but I’m so glad I didn’t. I’ll keep my 2.5s till I quit fishing.

**pcrussell50** · 03-12-2025, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by mercrazy

And it’s messy and another thing to deal with. I almost bought a 4 stroke when they first came out but I’m so glad I didn’t. I’ll keep my 2.5s till I quit fishing.

Not understanding the arithmetic of pre mixing, (even with all the tools to help, not the least of which is the calculator on your iPhone), is part of that whole mindset of not understanding any of the tech in your life. People who can’t understand pre mixing are never going to understand why it’s easier to keep a two stroke running for the rest of your life, and will spend the rest of their lives buying new four strokes and sending them to the landfill every few years.

I didn’t start boating until 2009, and didn’t get my first V6 Merc until 2015 (well I got it in 2012 but it had a burned piston so I didn’t start actually using it until 2015). It was a 2.0/150. At that time I didn’t know a 2.5 from a hole in the ground or I probably would have them instead. The 2.0/2.4 family is who I met at the dance, and for my uses I’ve got not enough reason to change, so that’s what I’ve got. That boat I bought in 2012 now has a 2.4/200 and I’m happy as a clam using it as a family recreation boat that can be fast enough when I want it to be.

-Peter

**powerabout** · 03-12-2025, 06:56 PM

I think the big killer was ( less race engines) the carby to efi jump, for many the jump was carby 2 stroke to efi 4 stroke so new engines better, they blamed the 2 stroke, yet the dfi engines ran as well but too late.

**wettek** · 03-12-2025, 07:04 PM

Speak for yourself. I'm a member of the general public and I would love a new V6 2-stroke. We just weren't given any choice.

**powerabout** · 03-12-2025, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by wettek

Speak for yourself. I'm a member of the general public and I would love a new V6 2-stroke.

carby efi or dfi?

**wettek** · 03-12-2025, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by powerabout

carby efi or dfi?

dfi.

**David - WI** · 03-12-2025, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by wettek

Speak for yourself. I'm a member of the general public and I would love a new V6 2-stroke. We just weren't given any choice.

Yeah, I didn't even want to wade into that mudpuddle.
People who were waiting 12, 15, or 18 months to take delivery of their new 2-stroke Mercury finally giving up and buying something else isn't exactly like saying they didn't want one!

**bouyhead** · 03-12-2025, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by pcrussell50

Believe it or not, I agree that you're probably right, though the reason needs fleshing out a bit... There is a (ridiculous and unearned, IMHO) stigma attached to two-strokes. It colors people's minds. That coupled with the refined idle of a four-stroke* and people's growing detachment in understanding, from how the things in their lives actually work, and you get your disposable four-stroke society. Why have a two stroke that you could keep running for the rest of your life with cheap repairs, when you can buy four brand new disposable four strokes over the same period?

Case in point: My two nephews, 20 and 22. Standard all-American boys, varsity football in HS, scholarships in University, etc... They are mad about fishing, and super knowledgeable and capable fishermen. By their early teens, they still didn't even know how to put air their bicycle tires. Their dad had to do it for them. They will both own several outboard boats with brand new four strokes over their lives, and the minute a motor eats a piston or the timing belt skips one too many teeth, they will have a brand new motor, and the junkyard will become that much fuller. And as long as people know no better, there will be No market for two strokes, in a customer base like that, to whom a motor is indistinguishable from magic, in terms of how much they understand it.

*I say refined idle, because my FourStroke while nearly silent and smoke-free at idle, is not at all particularly quiet while under way, planing.

-Peter

You nailed it Peter. When folks say "the general public" wants a 4 stroke what percentage of that are boaters and what percentage are tree huggers thinking they'll clean up the environment? I doubt that the general boating public ran to merc screaming "do away with the 2 strokes we want a complicated, heavy 4 stroke" that's probably no cleaner then the Opti I used to run. Curious what would be the big seller if merc never did away with the 2 stroke and offered both platforms. I bought a P22 back in 2016 and ran an opti until last year. I looked into the 4 stroke multiple times over the years I remember in the beginning it was give me a deposit and i'll call you in 6-8 months when your motor comes in. No thanks. Then it was the few guys running 4 strokes on P22's that just couldn't get the boats to fly easily. Iv'e got a 300X on my boat now and couldn't be happier. This is what belongs on this boat, makes it a true hotrod. Pic for your enjoyment.