300xs vs 300x vs 400R vs Caldwell Billet 2.5

**Ally101** · 06-09-2016, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by whipper

Hmmm very interesting hypothetical hear. Only because even with the 300X and its 325-335 hp stock power plant i would wonder if a twin 300x 21 skater would be faster or {Quicker} than a twin 400 hp CRT? Im thinking not simply because of the power to weight plus the revs and smaller wheel would eat the 300x in a drag race? Top speed ill have to think any way the crt would have that edge also. Ill tell ya this much thats a race i would pay money to watch over and over again.

I dont think the 400R belongs on a boat under 26ft unless your looking for an anchor.

So ur saying crt makes 400hp?

**powerabout** · 06-09-2016, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Davidlake

I have experienced the transition from 2 stroke MX bikes to 4 strokes first hand (well, both hands). What you say is correct about the bikes... But, I feel that the change was corporate $$ driven. In all-out race conditions, the 4 strokes get to the flag first. Refreshing a 2 stroke bike costs maybe $200. A 4 stroke more like $1000! That will be the outcome of the motorboat high-output 4 strokes. For recreational use, I much prefer the 2 stroke MX'er. Same for motor boats!

I think the japs forced the change as they were so embarrassed for not inventing DFI, hence no more development.
Look what BRP do with sleds and 2 strokes

**CUDA** · 06-09-2016, 09:13 PM

Is the CRT a 2.5 or larger?

**LongShot** · 06-09-2016, 09:43 PM

^^^ 2.5 and growing by the minute......Nice thing about not being built in the corporate world. You don't have to have 10 accountants, 4 lawyers, the environmental manager, the safety manager and have at least one representative from every diversity category including lgbt in the room with a Powerpoint presentation and 18 people trying to listen on a conference call that keeps dropping out to make a 2.9, 3.1 and a 3.4 liter billet motor. You just do it. In the words of Toby Keith " How Do You Like Me Now"!!!!

**powerabout** · 06-09-2016, 10:19 PM

3.4 from same outside dimensions??
Might need to base it on omc size case?

**whipper** · 06-09-2016, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Ally101

So ur saying crt makes 400hp?

The lowest HP model is 320 and the highest was 400. not sure if they will be making one with more HP or not. Theres lots of 450+ hp 2 stroke outboards out there that they would have to compete with. Its a remarkable engine and idea. Pricey for the full Monty but very special. Sub 400lbs.

**robert cruse** · 06-10-2016, 12:02 AM

So what did you have a 400R on that gives you this expertise?

**Double Rigged** · 06-10-2016, 06:15 AM

I am all in if anyone of these 2 stroke builders come up with 400hp 2 stroke/turn key powerhead that is sold complete from someone reputable that answers the phone and stands behind what they build. So far pretty much pipe dream other than one off's and rumors.
Need to see something proven with documented dyno pulls etc.
Been hearing about these for over a year.
Patiently waiting!!!!!

**Risco** · 06-10-2016, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by Double Rigged

I am all in if anyone of these 2 stroke builders come up with 400hp 2 stroke/turn key powerhead that is sold complete from someone reputable that answers the phone and stands behind what they build. So far pretty much pipe dream other than one off's and rumors.
Need to see something proven with documented dyno pulls etc.
Been hearing about these for over a year.
Patiently waiting!!!!!

I forgot who built the 3.6l 300x that was supposed to mkae 400hp there youtube video of him he cruises at 100 and zips by like there tied to the dock. The problem is he went threw a 3.0l sportmaster almost every time out push pinion right out of the case. I also heard that the 400r frist came out they were ran with 3.0l sportmaster with no luck either. So even if you could get 400hp how would you get to water.

**Chaz** · 06-10-2016, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Double Rigged

I am all in if anyone of these 2 stroke builders come up with 400hp 2 stroke/turn key powerhead that is sold complete from someone reputable that answers the phone and stands behind what they build. So far pretty much pipe dream other than one off's and rumors.
Need to see something proven with documented dyno pulls etc.
Been hearing about these for over a year.
Patiently waiting!!!!!

Ron ,
Let me see if I got this right ....

They would have to go out and buy two complete powerheads
Buy all the parts
Do all the machine work
Assemble the motors
400 hp dyno sheet
Be a ISO9000 company
Secretary with call forward
Wty a motor the factory wouldn't touch
Wait , I think that model come's with a unicorn ....

**Double Rigged** · 06-10-2016, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Chaz

Ron ,
Let me see if I got this right ....

They would have to go out and buy two complete powerheads
Buy all the parts
Do all the machine work
Assemble the motors
400 hp dyno sheet
Be a ISO9000 company
Secretary with call forward
Wty a motor the factory wouldn't touch
Wait , I think that model come's with a unicorn ....

And don't forget they will need people to buy them!!!!!
It is called running a legitimate business!!!!

**JPEROG** · 06-10-2016, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Risco

I forgot who built the 3.6l 300x that was supposed to mkae 400hp there youtube video of him he cruises at 100 and zips by like there tied to the dock. The problem is he went threw a 3.0l sportmaster almost every time out push pinion right out of the case. I also heard that the 400r frist came out they were ran with 3.0l sportmaster with no luck either. So even if you could get 400hp how would you get to water.

If you watch any of Kurt's videos with him running that 3.6X motor (which makes over 400) you will see that he twist it hard for miles on end. He was breaking cases before he was having them shimmed correctly I believe. Charlie runs his built X on the 21 Skater and covers more miles then pretty much anyone in a given year (his case is custom with bravo gears that have been turned down to fit but has big hours on it) and his makes 400. Hydrotec has built several, Todd D. has built several, Simons has built several, and DBR has them running but I don't know about buying them as turn key complete powerheads. If and when these get put on a large hull and really loaded all of the time, I am sure that detonation will become more apparent. Charlie runs good fuel in his all of the time, Dave has one on his 24 predator (24 skater copy that is heavy) and he runs good fuel as well.

If you are wanting one of the manufactures to step into this market and not strictly an aftermarket company or shop--never happen. This is no different then what we had to do with motorcycles (Pre-1994) before the big bores became available from the factory. Everything we ran was pretty much aftermarket other then the crank "which had to be welded" and the case which had to bored. Snowmobiles and jetskis were the same story. When they come out with a program to dump a hotter tune in these 400s and or add some cubic inches to the picture then they will make what everyone wants but its gonna be pricy and still gonna be heavy....

Joe

**Davidlake** · 06-10-2016, 09:16 AM

I wonder if the 400R has hydraulic lifters or does it need valve adjustments and how often and how difficult? And, what is the maintenance schedule?

**Chaz** · 06-10-2016, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Double Rigged

And don't forget they will need people to buy them!!!!!
It is called running a legitimate business!!!!

My bad .... I thought you were looking to buy a pair of powerheads . Now I see , you want to buy a turn key business that has standing orders . How far back do you need to see the tax returns ...

Chaz = thinking that you can take a 3.0L piston with the rings on it and horseshoe pitch it by the rod from across the room in the bore of a real 400 hp 2 stroke powerhead ... but then , what do I know ...

**AZMIDLYF** · 06-10-2016, 10:01 AM

Corey Sinclair What's this 400hp kit he talks of for etecs?

Like · 1 · March 31 at 10:04pm

Dave Bush We have been working hard on 420 plus pump gas 3.3 kits.sleeves , pistons, heads, reeds, plenum,slides, ecu,ign wewe're having a blast and can't wait to show you

Like · 8 · March 31 at 10:12pm

Corey Sinclair Do you have an idea on pricing at this stage Dave? I'd be very keen to put a kit through my etec once you have all the R&D sorted.

Like · March 31 at 10:28pm

Dave Bush It's a bit early. The sleeves and pistons are on site now it will be another month for the turn key package

Like · 3 · March 31 at 10:41pm

Dave Bush The best part is we have been just beating the **** out of these things for over a year and they're really reliable fast engines