Tuff Boat on Long Island

**dnelson964** · 08-10-2015, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by berzerko

I owned an original 82 shadow it had a notch I believe all the Linder Lurhs shadow boats did
my under standing is they did that to add set back with out adding set back to the transom

the tuff's on the other hand are adding notch and a lot of set back..... Somewhere between 18" and 22"

the smaller tank is to move the CG back, not necessarily to save money I think

Good observation....many goods point coming out here and past minds thinking outside the box. But for the everyday and rougher waters ( we don't live on a short calm lake here..or I'ld buy a different type boat) I will take a full pad any day.

One way we could better get an idea of 'all' the SOB hulls now out there would be to put the same 300X on each boat and see what they do ? I'll loan mine for one try.

Keep it churning boys !

**XstreamVking** · 08-10-2015, 07:52 AM

News flash! You guys are talking about the Pipcorn notch design. From the Streams of the 70's. And vented bottoms were derived from the sea planes of the 50's. No new tech on these boats. Just old designs being copied. It all worked then, and now.

**RobF** · 08-10-2015, 08:15 AM

3-5 mph why woldnt everyone do it? Its about the same costs at a really good prop.
i dont recall you saying that before but I guess I was mistaken?

i did the first one on ed's boat.
Bob did the The jersey challenger a while after that.

venemous's Super underwent many changes all at once with new engine choices so it was not a good before/after example like the 2 LI supers.

Xstream- No it's not Groundbreaking stuff but someone needs to step up and try things so others can benefit from it. Takes Some balls to cut the bottom of your boat out

**Dirk Pitt** · 08-10-2015, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by RobF

3-5 mph why woldnt everyone do it? Its about the same costs at a really good prop.
i dont recall you saying that before but I guess I was mistaken?

i did the first one on ed's boat, was going to do your boat but you remember what happened there.
The jersey challenger was a while after that.

venemous's Super underwent many changes all at once with new engine choices so it was not a good before/after example like the 2 LI supers.

Xstream- No it's not Groundbreaking stuff but someone needs to step up and try things so others can benefit from it. Takes Some balls to cut the bottom of your boat out

know that I recall Raybo did the first notch on eddie boat, and of course did a outstanding job, but i know eddie, their were hundreds of phone calls to joey pior the the actual surgery, linder and Luhrs had a lot of input on the actual dementions of the notch pior to doing mine, and unaquivically it went 3 faster, i just pulled the folder out and my notes reflect the difference in rpm and speed

**2.5-21** · 08-10-2015, 11:39 AM

If I am not mistaking the aerated component that you are referring to on the Tuff is in the top of the notch just forward of the transom......
Used to "EMPTY" the void created by the notch on take off similar to what the PVS holes do on a prop.
All used for Holeshot not top end speed.

Is there more aeration incorporated into the hull elsewhere?

**vnemous** · 08-10-2015, 12:41 PM

I actually vented my notch (to break the vacuum) much like fountain does in their steps. Made world of difference in hole shot.

**RBT** · 08-10-2015, 12:57 PM

Tuff only ventelates the notch. Like said above it makes a world of difference in holeshot

**berzerko** · 08-10-2015, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by RBT

The 106 boat runs 8" setback

I saved this pic…. cause i liked the little swim platforms on either side, there a lot more than 8" there not sure if this is the 106 boat but it does have a x motor on it

**DoktorC** · 08-10-2015, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by berzerko

I saved this pic…. cause i liked the little swim platforms on either side, there a lot more than 8" there not sure if this is the 106 boat but it does have a x motor on it

It's not the boat RBT is referring to (which runs an XS)...That was one of the original boats and the dude who bought it used it once and put it in storage with his collection of sports cars he never drove. I forgot all about that one...full carbon race hatch with a flood coat on the inside.

**Dirk Pitt** · 08-10-2015, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dirk Pitt

know that I recall Raybo did the first notch on eddie boat, and of course did a outstanding job, but i know eddie, their were hundreds of phone calls to joey pior the the actual surgery, linder and Luhrs had a lot of input on the actual dementions of the notch pior to doing mine, and unaquivically it went 3 faster, i just pulled the folder out and my notes reflect the difference in rpm and speed

Now that I have some time, when we all decieded to consider the notch, Eddie really had the nerve to cut open and remove a section of his boat, as Rob put it "Balls" but really he did it because he was under the totalige of Raybo, Rob took pain staking measures to insure that it was don correctly and the outcome would be a bonas, his dementions were spot on, now remember there were no excisting examples to copy, his mastery of fiberglass and his obvious design skills surly improved both the handling and speed of eddies boat...

**THE HOSER** · 08-10-2015, 03:56 PM

How much faster did Eddie go after the bottom was cut ?

**Dirk Pitt** · 08-10-2015, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by joneill

I find this thread very entertaining, lots of praise to Joey and digs torards Tuff, pretty much opposite of what i've heard the last 10 years. But i can say the Tuff boats are beautiful and i'd love to own one.

Im not going to fight joeys battles, but one thing is for sure his talent as a rigger setup man, throttleman, mechanic, can not be disbuted, if anyone doubts his talent maybe one should call peter from skater, or johhny t, or Reggi Fountain, or stewart Hyme,or even me, once again his accomplishments speak for themselves..... as far as Tuff no one is disbuting the quality of the boat, its one of the finest specimans I have ever seen..

**Dirk Pitt** · 08-10-2015, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by THE HOSER

How much faster did Eddie go after the bottom was cut ?

Eddie told me today he recalls 2mph which is in the relem of what I experienced, we both recall the boats having a quick set, a reduction or elimination of the hop, and it reduced steering input to avoid the boat from swaping side to side, like I stated each boat is different, either by layup, or by bottom, anything I stated is from my experience of a lot of seat time with both configurations, I always keep notes every time we changed something, and although not perfect i tried to test under the same conditions as much as possible, this is not an exact science, due to all the variables, but if anybody knows this its you , you have owned one particular 21 longer than anyone I know, but I also know from my conversations with you you were never a believer of the notch, as far as Ragues boat, I drove his boat a half a dozen times after it left raybo, the problem with that analogy, he never had big power on it, so I was never able to compare apples to apples, as far as what rob did, he transformed it into a thing of beauty..

**XstreamVking** · 08-10-2015, 04:43 PM

Purpose of a notch.... Gives set back w/o jack plate. Allows for elevated motor mounting while still allowing less slippage at take off. Reduces hull surface area for less drag. Small side benefit is a 3 point effect when trimmed out., which gives more stability at speeds.

edit* Forgot one more effect, a biggie. More bow lift. Reducing the stern lift made by a standard keel. This may be a good effect or a bad effect.

**Dirk Pitt** · 08-10-2015, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by XstreamVking

Purpose of a notch.... Gives set back w/o jack plate. Allows for elevated motor mounting while still allowing less slippage at take off. Reduces hull surface area for less drag. Small side benefit is a 3 point effect when trimmed out., which gives more stability at speeds.

all that is true but what happens when you elevate a motor? more RPM?, More RPM gives you what?maybe a little more speed, and again all those Superboats were different in one way or another, no one was the same, so different results were obtained.....