More mathematics of electricity

[BarryStrawn]

Everything gets more expensive because the dollar is worth less every year. Hard to avoid that with uncontrolled spending for a few decades. Both political parties suck.

[fixer68]

I live in the real world. The electric rates went up by me for fortifying the grid for distribution reliability. They stated it on the notice. Not for the supply of electricity. Has nothing to do with Trump cancelling renewables. That rate hike will come soon enough. But I wont pay that. I have a net metered solar system. I make more power then I need. I pay a fixed monthly payment plus the meter charge. About $50.00 less then my electric bill was. After the loan is paid,(15 year loan, 25 year warranty) it's just the meter charge.(currently around $16) Expected lifespan of the system is 40 years. By that time I will most likely be dead. I bought my solar system for one reason. To save money. Not about being green.

I do believe we need to transition the grid off coal and oil. It has to be done sensibly and it will take time. Solar and wind are only one part of the solution. You defiantly need base load capacity. Hydro, Nuclear, and my favorite Geothermal. All considered relatively green and all work 24/7. All kinds of powerplants take many years and many $$$ to build. No matter what kind of powerplant we build, we are going to need a lot of them. New York already has 3 Nuclear power plants producing power today. They supply only less than 22% of New York's electricity. It used to be 4 and 34%. But they stupidly closed Indian point. Said it was dangerous. But the danger is still sitting there. It's still radioactive. It's just idle. Should still be producing power. We are going to need a lot more power to supply AI. Cancelling 80% built wind farms is not going to help in any way. It will only hurt. Power prices are going to skyrocket. Glad I wont be paying for it.

No matter what kind of power we generate we are going to have to reinforce the grid. It really needs to be redesigned. It is stupid the most dangerous of all the utilities is hanging above our heads. Gas and water are buried. Why not electric? My gas and water has never gone out when a storm goes bye. Not even during Superstorm Sandy. Why do we have to rebuild the grid every time a storm goes bye.

We will always need oil and gas. Everything is made from oil. Electric cars have their place. Urban commutes, local deliveries, etc. But gas and diesel will still be needed for long distance and heavy hauling. Electric boats work for trolling or sailboats. But not for real world powerboating.

[fixer68]

Everything gets more expensive because the dollar is worth less every year. Hard to avoid that with uncontrolled spending for a few decades. Both political parties suck.

I could not agree more with this statement!!! Especially the last sentence!!!

[pcrussell50]

So Cudes... I have some good news for you:

Trump administration launches trial program to fast-track electric air taxis

I forgot since I don't follow your politics... Do you like Trump or not like Trump?

It won't change any of the laws of physics of course, or save lithium ion from the fact that it is near the end of it's road. But the article hints at relaxing safety standards, so that lithium ion powered air taxis can carry passengers for money. That's good news for you, right?

-Peter

[NICE PAIR]

Everything gets more expensive because the dollar is worth less every year. Hard to avoid that with uncontrolled spending for a few decades. Both political parties suck.

If you look at it while squinting your eyes a little, The two parties are a Team competing with each other to see who can win the brass ring.
"We the people" are not necessary after they have what they want.

[pcrussell50]

If you look at it while squinting your eyes a little, The two parties are a Team competing with each other to see who can win the brass ring.
"We the people" are not necessary after they have what they want.

I have heard people talk about the Dems and Pubs and referring to them as the “Uniparty” as at the end of the day, you can’t fit a ten cent bit between them. Was in my hotel room on a Honolulu layover a year ago or so and some libertarian bloke was on a podcast talking about that topic. He said he remembered Obama and John McCain debating some war or something. It was a heated debate and one was accusing the other of being a reckless spender and a war hawk… Because one was saying the taxpayers should spend $50B on some war and the other said the taxpayers should spend $51B. Something like that. And they were acting like that was the GIANT difference between them. I had a pretty big LOL about that.

-Peter

[pcrussell50]

I live in the real world. The electric rates went up by me for fortifying the grid for distribution reliability. They stated it on the notice. Not for the supply of electricity. Has nothing to do with Trump cancelling renewables. That rate hike will come soon enough. But I wont pay that. I have a net metered solar system. I make more power then I need. I pay a fixed monthly payment plus the meter charge. About $50.00 less then my electric bill was. After the loan is paid,(15 year loan, 25 year warranty) it's just the meter charge.(currently around $16) Expected lifespan of the system is 40 years. By that time I will most likely be dead. I bought my solar system for one reason. To save money. Not about being green.

Do you have it in writing about the 40 year lifespan? Because they don't just fail suddenly. Photocells age with exposure to... well... the sun, and they become less and less efficient over time. I'm not up on the latest but I would not bet on 40 year old photovoltaics being able to put out anywhere near what they put out when they are new. Also, do you have heirs? Because in most places, solar panels are toxic waste and it is expensive to remove them because you can't just put them in a landfill. Finally, to mount the panels requires making holes in your roof. Where it then becomes more susceptible to leaks and damage. Who is on the hook for that? Some dodgy solar companies, sell their systems with the intent of going out of business before they can honor their commitments... Then the slimy owner just starts up another one and does the same thing again.

Me? I would not enter a contract for solar without a lawyer drawing up some hard legal boundaries to protect me when the panel output degrades below useful levels, and if I had roof damage, or got stuck with the toxic waste disposal costs. Complicating the latter is possible changes to the law. I believe for example that Florida allows solar panels into landfills. They are so toxic though that I would not count on that lasting forever. Some interests in Florida are going to demand change, and then who gets left footing the bill? Food for thought.

-Peter

[fixer68]

LOL! Nice right wing talking points. Ooh scary scary! Get a lawyer. Toxic waste. Holes in your roof. LOL The system comes with a 25 year warranty The panel manufacturer. Backed up by the servicing company. Backed up by the solar installer company. That's all in writing. Here is a little snippet about how much degradation is allowed "a 25-year linear power output warranty. The power warranty guarantees that module output will be no less than 83.1% of nominal power after 25 years, with only 2.5% degradation in the first year and 0.6% annual degradation thereafter."

In case you missed it solar panels that were installed in the 1990's are still producing at more then 80% original capacity. That is solar panels made with 80's tech. They are much more advanced now.

Old Solar Panels Built in the Early 1990s Are Still Going Strong After 30 Years at 80% Original Power — And That’s a Big Deal for Our Energy Future

I talked to 8 solar companies before I settled on one. Most were a complete rip off. Prices vary wildly for the same size system Tried to push me to a 25 year payment instead of 15.with basically the same payment. The company I went with has been in business for 15 years. After I told them what I wanted and that I already talked to 7 other companies, They said a minimum deal is better than no deal. and gave me a price 35% less than the others without me ever telling them what I was quoted. With permitting it took 4 months to get it installed. Since then it has been great. I only use around 70% of the power I generate annually. And by the way, regardless of what the nay sayers try and tell you, solar systems still works on bad weather days. of course it's reduced, but If it rains all day I still generate about 20-25% of the power of a sunny day.

My arctic heat pump works great too. No matter how cold it gets. Good to minus 22 degrees F. No more gas heat bill. They work as AC in summer too. Cheap too, if you DIY the install. It's very easy if you are handy. You just need a licensed AC tech to evacuate and release the pre charged refrigerant to get the 10 year guarantee.

My roof is a basically new asphalt shingle roof in excellent condition. Know anything about shingle roofing? Every shingle has 4 or 5 nails in it. But they don't leak because they are under the next shingle. To install the solar brackets, they lift the shingle. Slide the bracket under it. Then screw it in the same area the shingle is nailed in. There are no exposed fasteners. It is almost impossible for it to leak even if they didn't use 10 tubes of roofing cement over the screws and to glue the shingles back down. Now the solar panels are protecting my roof from the damaging effects of the sun. The second floor of my house is naturally cooler because the sun is not beating directly on the roof.

As far as disposal of toxic waste goes. I will worry about that around 40 years from now. Besides we are talking about a twenty 1/2 panel solar system. The entire thing came on 1 pallet around 2 feet high. It doesn't take a lot of panels to generate a lot of power anymore. Take the glass out. Take the aluminum frame off. Take any wiring and circuit boards out. Scrap all that for $. You are left with the solar film. With the dismantling of the EPA just throw them in the garbage. LOL. But more then likely 40 years from now there will be an efficient way to recycle the valuable elements that make the panels toxic in the first place.

So with the reduction of my electric bill from going solar. Plus the reduction of my gas bill from heating with electric heat pumps. I am saving a couple thousand dollars a year on my utilities while paying for the system. When the loan is paid I will be saving close to 5K per year on utilities at current rates. But by the time the loan is paid off, the way things are going, rates will probably have doubled.. So I will be saving more like 10K per year.

How is that for food for thought?

[pcrussell50]

LOL! Nice right wing talking points.

Not sure what you mean by right wing talking points? Talking politics is not my thing. I'll leave that to you and Cuda, but glad you're happy. Solar is too far from applicability to boating, so I'll step out of that angle, but you did give a valuable hint when you mentioned fly-by-night solar companies and how many of them there are. Those, are why you need a lawyer, and it's cheaper to have one before you need it, than after you have been screwed. Seen it myself, not fallen for it though. Enjoy your roof.

Oh, and since about half the thin film household photovoltaics are cadmium telluride (deadly), (because they are cheap), it's probably good that you will be dead, when someone else has to deal with it.

-Peter

[CUDA]

Solar panels work on cloudy days by capturing diffuse sunlight, which is sunlight that has been scattered by the atmosphere and clouds. While they generate less electricity than on a clear, sunny day, they can still convert this ambient light into usable energy, though their efficiency drops significantly under heavy cloud cover. High-efficiency, monocrystalline panels are best suited for these lower-light conditions, and systems can also use solar batteries to store excess energy from sunny periods to be used on cloudy days.
How diffuse sunlight works
Scattered light:
.
Unlike the direct sunlight on a clear day, cloudy days provide more diffuse (or scattered) light.
Ambient light:
.
Clouds scatter and reflect sunlight, so even without a direct view of the sun, light still reaches the panels.
Panel technology:
.
Solar panels, especially high-efficiency models like monocrystalline panels, are designed to capture this ambient, scattered light and convert it into electricity.
Factors influencing performance
Cloud thickness:
Lighter clouds allow more diffuse light to pass through, while heavy, dark clouds significantly reduce the amount of usable light and lower panel output.
Panel type:
Monocrystalline solar panels are the best for cloudy conditions because their high efficiency allows them to capture more light even in low-light situations.
System components:
Modern inverters and strategic panel placement can help optimize energy capture from diffuse light.

[NICE PAIR]

LOL! Nice right wing talking points. Ooh scary scary! Get a lawyer. Toxic waste. Holes in your roof. LOL The system comes with a 25 year warranty The panel manufacturer. Backed up by the servicing company. Backed up by the solar installer company. That's all in writing. Here is a little snippet about how much degradation is allowed "a 25-year linear power output warranty. The power warranty guarantees that module output will be no less than 83.1% of nominal power after 25 years, with only 2.5% degradation in the first year and 0.6% annual degradation thereafter."

In case you missed it solar panels that were installed in the 1990's are still producing at more then 80% original capacity. That is solar panels made with 80's tech. They are much more advanced now.

Old Solar Panels Built in the Early 1990s Are Still Going Strong After 30 Years at 80% Original Power — And That’s a Big Deal for Our Energy Future

I talked to 8 solar companies before I settled on one. Most were a complete rip off. Prices vary wildly for the same size system Tried to push me to a 25 year payment instead of 15.with basically the same payment. The company I went with has been in business for 15 years. After I told them what I wanted and that I already talked to 7 other companies, They said a minimum deal is better than no deal. and gave me a price 35% less than the others without me ever telling them what I was quoted. With permitting it took 4 months to get it installed. Since then it has been great. I only use around 70% of the power I generate annually. And by the way, regardless of what the nay sayers try and tell you, solar systems still works on bad weather days. of course it's reduced, but If it rains all day I still generate about 20-25% of the power of a sunny day.

My arctic heat pump works great too. No matter how cold it gets. Good to minus 22 degrees F. No more gas heat bill. They work as AC in summer too. Cheap too, if you DIY the install. It's very easy if you are handy. You just need a licensed AC tech to evacuate and release the pre charged refrigerant to get the 10 year guarantee.

My roof is a basically new asphalt shingle roof in excellent condition. Know anything about shingle roofing? Every shingle has 4 or 5 nails in it. But they don't leak because they are under the next shingle. To install the solar brackets, they lift the shingle. Slide the bracket under it. Then screw it in the same area the shingle is nailed in. There are no exposed fasteners. It is almost impossible for it to leak even if they didn't use 10 tubes of roofing cement over the screws and to glue the shingles back down. Now the solar panels are protecting my roof from the damaging effects of the sun. The second floor of my house is naturally cooler because the sun is not beating directly on the roof.

As far as disposal of toxic waste goes. I will worry about that around 40 years from now. Besides we are talking about a twenty 1/2 panel solar system. The entire thing came on 1 pallet around 2 feet high. It doesn't take a lot of panels to generate a lot of power anymore. Take the glass out. Take the aluminum frame off. Take any wiring and circuit boards out. Scrap all that for $. You are left with the solar film. With the dismantling of the EPA just throw them in the garbage. LOL. But more then likely 40 years from now there will be an efficient way to recycle the valuable elements that make the panels toxic in the first place.

So with the reduction of my electric bill from going solar. Plus the reduction of my gas bill from heating with electric heat pumps. I am saving a couple thousand dollars a year on my utilities while paying for the system. When the loan is paid I will be saving close to 5K per year on utilities at current rates. But by the time the loan is paid off, the way things are going, rates will probably have doubled.. So I will be saving more like 10K per year.

How is that for food for thought?

I saw this somewhere, seems logical!

"People of great Intelligence never say, I'm very, very smart, or anything along those lines"

Why, because a person who is really Intelligent is secure in their Identity, no need to announce their intelligence is a widely accepted observation, their actions speak louder than words,

It's called Intellectual Humility, and contrasts with the "Dunning - Kruger effect" google It,

Where less competent Individuals tend to Overestimate their abilities,

Instead of bragging, Intelligent Individuals allow their actions and Insights demonstrate their Intelligence, preferring to listen and observe.

Peace, Love and Happiness, should be our REAL goals In Life.

[fixer68]

I saw this somewhere, seems logical!

"People of great Intelligence never say, I'm very, very smart, or anything along those lines"

Why, because a person who is really Intelligent is secure in their Identity, no need to announce their intelligence is a widely accepted observation, their actions speak louder than words,

It's called Intellectual Humility, and contrasts with the "Dunning - Kruger effect" google It,

Where less competent Individuals tend to Overestimate their abilities,

Instead of bragging, Intelligent Individuals allow their actions and Insights demonstrate their Intelligence, preferring to listen and observe.

Peace, Love and Happiness, should be our REAL goals In Life.

Tell this to the complete narcissist moron in office. Nowhere in any of my posts do I say I am smarter than anybody. Just not influenced by right or left wing politics.

'Listen To Smart People Like Me': Trump Reveals His True Feelings, Shows He Wants Everyone To Just Obey Him During Press Gaggle | Watch

[David - WI]

The warranty for your fancy chinese solar panels...

[fixer68]

The warranty for your fancy chinese solar panels...

7 years without a problem. I have not even had to clean them yet. That's right. I got them in 2018 during Trumps first term. Before he figured out how much more oil would pay for his support.