More mathematics of electricity

[pcrussell50]

My point in starting this thread was to point out how wasteful of land resources, the part-time/unrelibles are for supplying the grid, compared to the more compact and reliable forms of energy production.

xAI is buying 29, 47,000 hp gas turbines. It would take 350 acres covered in solar panels just to equal one gas turbine. That would be a LOT of land to destroy, to meet the energy demands of keeping a modern society.

To say nothing of the hazardous waste involved in the wind and solar and the hidden social inequity (the rich exploiting the poor), involved in how the hazardous waste has been dealt with, in the name of keeping it invisible so it looks cleaner than it is.

-Peter

[David]

So the Chinese are nuts?

[Chaz]

My point in starting this thread was to point out how wasteful of land resources, the part-time/unrelibles are for supplying the grid, compared to the more compact and reliable forms of energy production.

xAI is buying 29, 47,000 hp gas turbines. It would take 350 acres covered in solar panels just to equal one gas turbine. That would be a LOT of land to destroy, to meet the energy demands of keeping a modern society.

To say nothing of the hazardous waste involved in the wind and solar and the hidden social inequity (the rich exploiting the poor), involved in how the hazardous waste has been dealt with, in the name of keeping it invisible so it looks cleaner than it is.

-Peter

Your point is well taken. Less in / more out with the turbines when you take everything into consideration.

David

So the Chinese are nuts?

As Peter stated, (X Ping) "They are buying 29 turbines".
The Chinese backed Biden's climate hoax, they can afford to do whatever they want. They have only run into a yield sign in the last six months.

[pcrussell50]

So the Chinese are nuts?

Dunno. Doesn’t matter if it’s the Chinese or the King of Siam. The physics and mathematics are still the same.

Now…

China being a totalitarian society, I’d imagine they would not face the same resistance to the mass habitat destruction from converting large areas of land to solar and wind, or the toxic waste disposal issues with photovoltaics and wind, or even the intermittency that comes with reliance on using unreliables. In fact, Totalitarian societies that can tell their people to pound sand, are ideal for forcing these kinds of things.

-Peter

[NICE PAIR]

Send me one when they get it working, I'll be glad to exercise it and give you an honest opinion.

[pcrussell50]

https://insideevs.com/news/768181/sk...on-beat-china/

You’re going to hear a lot about solid-state batteries this decade, long before you see them in an electric car you can actually drive. As frustrating as that sounds, groundbreaking battery tech takes years, sometimes decades, to move from lab to showroom.

But when it arrives, it could reshape the auto industry. South Korea’s SK On thinks that day will come.

In a recent interview with Bloomberg, SK On’s research and development chief Park Kisoo struck an optimistic tone. “When the world of solid-state batteries arrives, it will definitely be first applied in pouch-type cells in which we already have a technological edge,” he said. “That could be a weapon that can help us beat China,” he added.


Automakers are aggressively chasing solid-state batteries, which replace the liquid electrolyte in traditional lithium-ion packs with a solid electrolyte. The solid electrolyte can be made from polymer, sulfides, oxides, or ceramic-type materials. On paper, the gains are compelling. Solid-state EV batteries promise higher energy density, faster charging, longer lifespan and vastly improved thermal stability.

But SK On faces stiff competition. Chinese battery makers already lead in semi-solid-state technology, which battery experts consider as the bridge to all solid-state batteries (ASSBs). Nio EVs with semi-solid packs are already on Chinese roads. Last week, MG Motor said it will be the first automaker to put a semi-solid-state battery into an affordable, mass-market EV—the MG4.

Western carmakers are moving in as well. Mercedes-Benz has fitted U.S. startup Factorial’s semi-solid-state pack into an EQS sedan for testing. Stellantis plans to install a prototype Dodge Charger Daytona EV with a Factorial battery next year. BMW appears to be slightly ahead of the pack. It demonstrated an all-solid-state battery in an i7 test mule in Germany back in May.

Factorial is a US company, with a very strong South Korean presence, If you buy stock, this is the One.

Cudes mate, that article is full of little snippets of misdirection and misinformation.

For example,
-it mentions semi-solid-state batteries. But those are not related in any way, to actual solid state batteries. Semi-solid-state batteries often sound like breakthrough tech, but they're only just an adaptation of the same old same old that we've had for the past 35 years. Nothing new and no great benefits except maybe some less tendency to grow dendrites and catch fire. That at least is worth something. But it's not going to solve the energy density problem

-Also, it describes "stiff competition". That is a misdirection. There is no such thing as stiff competition in a new technology when that technology does not yet exist. The stiff competition in solid state batteries, will only come about when solid state batteries that you and I can buy are in cars that you and I can buy, and everybody is making them, AND government is not subsidizing them. THEN and only then, can there be stiff competition.

The one true statement is that new battery technology can take decades. It is true, because it has taken decades, and we're still not there.

-Peter

[Chaz]

Have you heard about Farming, you need to go fix that, now there is a REAL problem, they really waste a lot of land.

You have a Childs mind, that's why chaz likes you so,

You should just eat : CRAP, solar panels, and transistors.

The rest of us want fresh fruits and vegetables. Red meat, chicken and pork .. all raised on a farm.

Most children know this .. you on the other hand .. earn your place @ the bottom wrung on the ladder every day ...

When them new batteries ... they could ... LMAO, you F'in lefties are so trans oriented everything you state, starts with "If my aunt was my uncle" ..

[pcrussell50]

By the way, getting back to the science, I’m going to toss something out there to correct something we have probably all been guilty of, and that is using the term “energy density” when talking about how heavy lithium ion is compared to petrol.

Term we should be using is specific energy, which is energy per unit mass, which is what is keeping lithium ion a non-starter in planing hull boating and commercial air travel.

The term we have mostly been misusing, energy density, actuallyis energy stored per unit volume. Now, lithium ion is also horrendous there too. Lithium ion is even worse in fact, in energy density (energy/space used) than it is in specific (energy/weight).

Anyway, when you hear me talk about “specific energy” of lithium ion compared with petroleum, know that I am talking about energy per unit mass, not energy per unit volume.

-Peter

[NICE PAIR]

Uhhhhhhhhhhh! Thanks, I think!

[David]

Apparently the Dutch have embraced green generation

[XstreamVking]

Too bad the things that produce the "renewable" energy do not recycle well and are very bad for the environment when they no longer function.

[pcrussell50]

Apparently the Dutch have embraced green generation

1) The Dutch had to destroy huge swaths of habitat to plant solar panels with very low up time due to cloudiness and high latitude. Same as Germany. Although they do make an effort to use rooftops and even floating photovoltaic panels on lakes as to not destroy so much land, so there is that. But it still takes a LOT of land to make much solar in a cloudy country that is mostly above 50 degrees latitude. Also they are trying to make as much wind as possible in the ocean. But ocean-borne wind power is 3x more expensive than land-based. Yikes.

2) They also subsidise the daylights out of their unreliable energy sources (about $1200 per citizen per year, as of 2024). This does not include tax breaks given to unreliables, which they also give to fossil.

3) And even still they use gas turbines to stabilise the grid so they don’t have brownouts and blackouts when the sun isn’t shining and the wind isn’t blowing. Gas turbines are badass. But make a sh*t ton of CO2 because they use a LOT of fuel for the power they produce.

***

Too bad the things that produce the "renewable" energy do not recycle well and are very bad for the environment when they no longer function.

This is true and it is a huge problem that so far has been handled by the rich countries and states exploiting the poor. But it is only fair that I point out an outlier. Solar thermal energy (using solar heat to boil water to make steam), is clean. It does not have the toxic waste disposal issues that photovoltaics (solar panels) have. The trouble is, it’s so expensive that even the boldest subsidies are still not enough.

-Peter

[David]

AI will make this situation much worse. Everyone will have access to the same detailed information 10 years from now (in that amount of time, they predict that AI will have shaped itself to the point of equalizing much of our populations knowledge access). Everyone will have money based on AI recommendations for investing "for those who will play the game" its going to be the most accurate market predictions that we have been exposed to (unless you are a member of congress).

This is going to truly be a double edged sword-one side offers great learning and opportunity knowledge, the other side will cut our society's communication to basically nothing and interpersonal communication will continue to dwindle as people become "friends" with AI Annie. Why worry about friends when you can talk to Annie anytime 24/7....

Joe

I found these charts in my e-mail this morning. Joe is quite correct about AI driving electricity needs. It will drive up your cost of electricity as power is added to the grid. The first graph is global data center power needs, the second is US data center.

[David]

US growth in power capacity from 2023-2024 was mostly solar and wind. I expect that to change.

[Chaz]

The village idiot once again missed the memo ...

Kumla wasted 2 billion dollars in 100 days ..and owes 20 million dollars that she overspent ...

Just think three and a half more years of the best POTUS in our lifetime.

The best of TDS is yet to come ...