Are newer assembly lubes for 2 strokes?????

[spybot]

On another thread we got talking debating regarding assembling a OMC V4 2 stroke.
Got round to the question above.
I know a lot of you guys only use 2 stroke oil on the bearings ect when building a motor.
My question is this. Surely when rebuilding a motor there must be a better compound/grease/lube than 2t oil ???
I get it that the oil is what lubricates the motor all the time be it mixed with fuel but it does the job in hand. But if you assemble a new/honed motor would it not be better to use say

RedLine assembly paste (Details Below) Plenty more other lubes available i have this is the one and LM48

Designed to be used a lubricant to apply to potential wear surfaces before assembly in order to prevent metal contact upon startup before adequate lubrication is supplied.
Provides three times greater film strength than conventional black Molybdenum Disulfide greases and will not clog oil filters. This product clings to all surfaces and is an excellent rust inhibitor, allowing the storage of parts for years.
Red Line Assembly Lube will mix with our motor oil and can be used on all lubricated parts such as cams, followers, pistons, and bearings, and bolt
threads. Red Line Assembly Lube is an excellent corrosion inhibitor and can be used on machined surfaces to provide long-term corrosion protection.
or
LM 48
High-performance tungsten disulfide paste for heavy-duty applications. Adheres even to apparently smooth surfaces. Rubbed into bearings and slide guides, prevents running-in damage and seizing marks when pressing in pins and bearing bushes and mounting plain bearing rings. For basic lubrication and lifetime lubrication of joints and small components. Contains a synergistically active solid lubricant system with a zinc sulfide, graphite, fluorides and tungsten disulfide base. Operating temperature range: -35 °C to +450 °C

Now these lubes surely will last longer on the part than the 2Stroke Oil. Giving the fuel mix time to build up a layer of oil which is being fed to the motor albeit mixed with fuel.
The initial 5 to 10 mins when the motor first starts after a rebuild are the most critical time for bearings getting put under load. The lube will take care of them until such times that the oil has begun to cling to them.

Another thing to throw into the mix is Factory Service Manuals.
Now the manual for my motor 40 years old, surely some of the lubricants called for back than have been superseded buy more superior lubes ???
Do the factory service manuals of to day state that you must use 2 stroke upon rebuilding a motor ?????
Are there race motor builders only using 2 stroke for the build ???

[HStream1]

I dont know of a 2 Stroke Engine manufacturer or petroleum company that doesnt sell and market their own brand of Needle bearing assembly grease. OMC's Johnson Evinrude, Mercury, Yamaha you name it. There are also many Petroleum manufactures that sell it also Lubriplate, Chevron, Mobile, Exxon etc etc.

[Chaz]

CVS, Walgreens, Wal-Mart, Publix, Costco, all sell big tubs of Vasoline pretty cheap compared to specialty assembly lubes which are geared more to work with the break-in of scrubbing parts like flat tappet cam and lifter's as well as babbitt style bearings.
And with most being sold in small squirt type bottles, I can't see them being thick enough to hold wrist pin needles in place long enough to slide the pin through without dropping a few out of place. Most are some form of synthetic's which could also cause the pins to slide instead of roll.
Vasoline on the other hand, will hold the needles in place long enough to build sub assembly's (piston and rods) and will wash away quickly from the gas / oil mix / heat to allow the two-stroke oil to do it's job.
I use it for building automatic transmissions for the same reasons.

Assuming that the cylinder wall's are clean, a mineral-based oil (or ATF) is the best thing to wipe the walls with. It will keep them from rusting and provide enough lubrication for the rings to slide without damaging their surface. Yet won't over-protect them from ever bedding in and sealing up.

I'm sure there are better products on the market to deal with each individual situation. But more times than not, what might be good for the bearings are not good for the rings. That's why I just stick with petroleum-based stuff that's readily available. It's one of the few places that I believe, the old fashioned way is still the best way. But I'm old .. so what do I know ..

[Tomanytoys]

CVS, Walgreens, Wal-Mart, Publix, Costco, all sell big tubs of Vasoline pretty cheap compared to specialty assembly lubes which are geared more to work with the break-in of scrubbing parts like flat tappet cam and lifter's as well as babbitt style bearings.
And with most being sold in small squirt type bottles, I can't see them being thick enough to hold wrist pin needles in place long enough to slide the pin through without dropping a few out of place. Most are some form of synthetic's which could also cause the pins to slide instead of roll.
Vasoline on the other hand, will hold the needles in place long enough to build sub assembly's (piston and rods) and will wash away quickly from the gas / oil mix / heat to allow the two-stroke oil to do it's job.
I use it for building automatic transmissions for the same reasons.

Assuming that the cylinder wall's are clean, a mineral-based oil (or ATF) is the best thing to wipe the walls with. It will keep them from rusting and provide enough lubrication for the rings to slide without damaging their surface. Yet won't over-protect them from ever bedding in and sealing up.

I'm sure there are better products on the market to deal with each individual situation. But more times than not, what might be good for the bearings are not good for the rings. That's why I just stick with petroleum-based stuff that's readily available. It's one of the few places that I believe, the old fashioned way is still the best way. But I'm old .. so what do I know ..

Dont you have work to do?

[HStream1]

I have to agree. Back in the day I kept two things on my engine assembly bench. A Big Jar of Petroleum Jelly (Vaceline/Boy Butter) And a Squirt Can with 50/50 STP and straight 30W Motor oil.

CVS, Walgreens, Wal-Mart, Publix, Costco, all sell big tubs of Vasoline pretty cheap compared to specialty assembly lubes which are geared more to work with the break-in of scrubbing parts like flat tappet cam and lifter's as well as babbitt style bearings.
And with most being sold in small squirt type bottles, I can't see them being thick enough to hold wrist pin needles in place long enough to slide the pin through without dropping a few out of place. Most are some form of synthetic's which could also cause the pins to slide instead of roll.
Vasoline on the other hand, will hold the needles in place long enough to build sub assembly's (piston and rods) and will wash away quickly from the gas / oil mix / heat to allow the two-stroke oil to do it's job.
I use it for building automatic transmissions for the same reasons.

Assuming that the cylinder wall's are clean, a mineral-based oil (or ATF) is the best thing to wipe the walls with. It will keep them from rusting and provide enough lubrication for the rings to slide without damaging their surface. Yet won't over-protect them from ever bedding in and sealing up.

I'm sure there are better products on the market to deal with each individual situation. But more times than not, what might be good for the bearings are not good for the rings. That's why I just stick with petroleum-based stuff that's readily available. It's one of the few places that I believe, the old fashioned way is still the best way. But I'm old .. so what do I know ..

[Merc 2.5]

So other than vaseline ,needle bearing lube from omc or tcw3 oil , I wouldn't use anything thick , if vaseline tries to let go of bearing , just freeze it for few min and will thicken up until warms ups

[DieselDood]

My FIL and I were talking about this a couple weeks ago actually. He stands by lubraplate. I have an assembly lube that I REALLY like for doing big engine work (Cars-big diesels) that has always worked well. It's a liquid, but has a high film strength, but disappears quickly with a little heat. It's a permatex product, see here: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p...SABEgLutPD_BwE

I've got a 150hp Johnson I'm going to be rebuilding, and I'll probably give it a try.

[Merc 2.5]

What all do yall plan on putting this lube on? Only thing that could possibly need anything is needle bearings , and that's just to hold them n place , and that's not needed if u have the tool everything else needs tcw3 and that's it , tcw3 oils everything in it while runnin , the bearings wont roll on initial start up just slide then u got flat spots that mite not show there ugly face till hours later. Jmo. I dont build em everyday ,but ones I've built runnin good, I dont see a need to experiment with sumthin like this , unless it's a experimental motor

[Tomanytoys]

My FIL and I were talking about this a couple weeks ago actually. He stands by lubraplate. I have an assembly lube that I REALLY like for doing big engine work (Cars-big diesels) that has always worked well. It's a liquid, but has a high film strength, but disappears quickly with a little heat. It's a permatex product, see here: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p...SABEgLutPD_BwE

I've got a 150hp Johnson I'm going to be rebuilding, and I'll probably give it a try.

Thats good chit.....
Used it for a pile of 2 stroke sled motor rebuilds.

[Capt.Insane-o]

Been using vaseline forever for bearings and normal 30 wt motor oil for pistons and cylinder walls. 2 stroke is too runny except for benol and r50. Before the front half goes on a few shots of 2s from a pump can on the bearings.

[Chaz]

Dont you have work to do?

Well .... ahhhh .... yes I do. I just stepped out for a quick post ....

[Tomanytoys]

Well .... ahhhh .... yes I do. I just stepped out for a quick post ....

OTB(SD)LMPAO
translation.....On The Beach (Socially Distant) Laughing My Phuqing Arse Off
now that’s what I call stepping out....
I guess I was just laying around......

[ChrisCarsonMarine]

ChrisCarsonMarine
Supporting Vendor

Join DateSep 2006LocationKey Largo, FlPosts3,073Thanks (Given)7Thanks (Received)140Likes (Given)18Likes (Received)367Mentioned0 Post(s)Tagged1 Thread(s)

I was taught at an early age not to use grease at all for needle bearing assymbly...that it had a tendency to slide the needles instead of letting them roll in the first few seconds during and after startup,resulting in microscopic flats on the needles,shortening their life.I've never put this to the test,and never felt a need to...I set the wrist needles in place in the rod with a spacer a few thousandths smaller than the wrist pin,supported on the bottom by the washer,put the rod into the piston and slide the pin into the rod,displacing the spacer...slip in the other washer,install the circlips,and you're done.Add a squirt of oil and you're set...no sticky grease,no sliding bearings,no washing grease out...
Proper lube is important in a four stroke to protect against bearing wear on forced oiling systems before they build oil pressure...no need on a needle bearing...light oil is my choice...although I do have a favorite mix I like,I don't think it's important.
Think about it...there are usually around twice as many wrist needles as rod needles,only moving in a 60 degree arc,instead of the 360 degree motion of the rod needles...they should last forever...yet we see failures commonly...might sliding greased in place needles be a factor?
Who knows,but for me the spacer method is faster,cleaner,simpler,won't slide the needles,and I won't have the chance of sticking a greasy needle somewhere it dosen't belong,Chris

[FORBESAUTO]

X2 on Vaseline, I use 2 stroke oil on rest for initial lubricant, mainly because it seems to protect against surface rust better, important here in our humid mess of air.

[FORBESAUTO]

I see the grease causing needles to slide, and have thought to myself “that’s a good point”. And, not gonna lie, when it’s hotter than hot around here and the ole Vaseline runs like water and is useless, I’ll sneak a little grease in there to hold things together till I can get her together. I make myself feel better bout it by thinking bout u-joints, that’s all they are is needles and grease is what makes then happy and roll, let one dry out and that’s when they start skidding and flat spotten. So who knows, ain’t had any problems either way. I do use the Vaseline when temps allow it, just for the warm fuzzy feelin