New Boats Anymore ?????

[Greg G]

I was talking to John about selling the Superboats. MY COST on a bare hull, no rigging at all, without trailer was 30K. I'd have over $60k in it with no labor. It would cost over 20K more than a new 21 Liberator that has a custom paint job.

A 21 Checkmate with a 300xs and ALL the extras is under $60K. Still $20K under the 21 Superboat and the Checkmate will run mid to high 90's. The mold and glass work on the Checkmate is probably the best I've seen!

Wow. Interesting.

[wickedwitthestix]

So your saying a 21 superboat all said and done is 80? That would make bare hull in the 45-50 k range. Lol your kidding me right? in a recent thread it was said that a 22 progression hull could b had for under 35k. And I know the progression is more cost wise. You can do it for the same #s. And as far quality and I'm talking what a boat can physically take the super is definitely the tuffer of the 2. No pun intended lol

[wickedwitthestix]

The numbers just don't make sence. Unless your paying 10 k for checkmate hulls and if you are more power to ya ...if there's a 20 k difference all said and done and a super hull is 30 k that make the checkmate 10k

[tux974]

I was talking to John about selling the Superboats. MY COST on a bare hull, no rigging at all, without trailer was 30K. I'd have over $60k in it with no labor. It would cost over 20K more than a new 21 Liberator that has a custom paint job.

Randy, awhile back when we inquired about the older deck 21 he wanted a minimum order of 5 to make it worth his retooling the deck which is currently trashed and they would have been 25ish. But this was about 3+ years now so 30K seems like a good # for today! He does build a good product in today's standards though!
Funny thing years back he had 2 local shops rigging 1 or 2 a week regularly, now maybe one CC which some he even rigs himself maybe every other month........
This is just a Superboat story I'm sure there are some, maybe many other builders experiencing the same situation......

It's definitely not cost. I see new wakeboard/wakesurf boats and pontoon boats idle behind my house all day long every weekend that all cost $50,000-$150,000. You can still buy a nice go-fast rig for that kind of money. The problem is guys, we're all a dying breed. I can't really give a good reason for it, but it's a reality of the world we live in. I also know that grass roots motocross racing has declined severely since when I raced back in the '80s and early '90s. Local races/racetracks are becoming fewer and fewer. It seems that all the younger generation cares about is their stupid IPhones and Facebook/Twitter/Snapchat and whatever other social media sites are out there. I live only an hour from where Google/Facebook/Twitter/Apple are headquartered, and I can tell you that those companies are making BILLIONS of $$$, while the few high performance boat companies left are not even making a profit. As others have already posted, I also give huge "kudos" to those that are still building high performance boats to keep what we all love alive. They're definitely doing it because it is their passion, because nobody will ever get rich doing it. I will always remember Peter Hledin telling me years ago, "You know how to become a millionaire in the boat business? Start with two million!"

Dale, I think the main factor on those wake board/skying boat purchases is because they can get financing plus obtain insurance much easier.
Not many are going in to a dealer cutting a check for 100K, I'm sure some do but not many or regularly......JMPO!
Heck for me at (60, 0 tickets or claims thank god!) now days to get insurance on my toys I have to give Allstate everything I own to insure and then an umbrella policy......

[bayratpg]

To compare a Checkmate to a Superboat is insulting to the Superboat. Checkmates are pretty lake and river cruisers, Superboats are ocean raceboats built to a MUCH higher standard. Look to OPA Class 7 this season and you'll see a 1982 Superboat (old Breakaway boat with many races and many victories) competing again, original transom and stringers and core. I had a 1987 21 Checkmate Starflite that looked pretty and ran well, but it would twist up racing jetskis in the bay! I had to sell it before I tore it apart in Jamaica Bay! The Starflite wouldn't last the first race in Seaside Heights at competitive speeds. My buddy tried running a Starflite in Class 7, it didnt work.
Bottom Line:
Comparing A Checkmate to a Superboat is like comparing Craftsman to Snap On.

A 21 Checkmate with a 300xs and ALL the extras is under $60K. Still $20K under the 21 Superboat and the Checkmate will run mid to high 90's. The mold and glass work on the Checkmate is probably the best I've seen!

[wickedwitthestix]

To compare a Checkmate to a Superboat is insulting to the Superboat. Checkmates are pretty lake and river cruisers, Superboats are ocean raceboats built to a MUCH higher standard. Look to OPA Class 7 this season and you'll see a 1982 Superboat (old Breakaway boat with many races and many victories) competing again, original transom and stringers and core. I had a 1987 21 Checkmate Starflite that looked pretty and ran well, but it would twist up racing jetskis in the bay! I had to sell it before I tore it apart in Jamaica Bay! The Starflite wouldn't last the first race in Seaside Heights at competitive speeds. My buddy tried running a Starflite in Class 7, it didnt work.
Bottom Line:
Comparing A Checkmate to a Superboat is like comparing Craftsman to Snap On.

I didn't wanna be the one to say it so boldly but DITTO!!!

[bayratpg]

I didn't wanna be the one to say it so boldly but DITTO!!!

I wasn't intending to be "bold", just informative.

[mrpenguin]

I think today is a lot different from 20-25 years ago that we all remember. The demand has shifted to water sports and family cruising. A day on the water is a lot different for consumers today.

The demand shift can be seen in many different avenues.

How many 2.5 liter ROS engines have been sold in the last 10 years up to their demise?

How many 21, 24, 30ft Superboats with decks have been sold in the last 15 years? There is a reason that all they build now is mainly center consoles.

We all remember the good days but the demand is simply not there. This website is the hub of SOB boating and rarely do we see a new Progression, Superboat, Tuff, Stuphen, Hustler........... Even boating get together are rare.

The American past time has changed for the majority of this country due to technology and increasing time constraints.

[mikesufka]

Personally I don't think it's about the money - I see tons, and I mean TONS of the Tritoon's with big Verado's that run $75,000 and up all the time. Not to mention all the wakeboard boat that are running the same costs.

I guess my question has been answered by not really being answered - there are minimal, if any, STV's and Allisons being built. Too bad.

MDS

[wickedwitthestix]

Agreed but even the cc's are not selling. And a 24 super cc can be had for less than a proline or trophy of the same size. And granted as a hard core fishing machine one might chose the proline or trophy. But most cc buyers are family guys that wanna buzz around a lil with the fam and get good economy fuel wise. Maybe go fishing occasionally. And for that application a 24 super is far better boat it's just they don't get the exposure that those big name company's get

[bayratpg]

I think today is a lot different from 20-25 years ago that we all remember. The demand has shifted to water sports and family cruising. A day on the water is a lot different for consumers today.

The demand shift can be seen in many different avenues.

How many 2.5 liter ROS engines have been sold in the last 10 years up to their demise?

How many 21, 24, 30ft Superboats with decks have been sold in the last 15 years? There is a reason that all they build now is mainly center consoles.

We all remember the good days but the demand is simply not there. This website is the hub of SOB boating and rarely do we see a new Progression, Superboat, Tuff, Stuphen, Hustler........... Even boating get together are rare.

The American past time has changed for the majority of this country due to technology and increasing time constraints.

Another thing to consider is that there are 30+ yr old hulls still in good shape to buy used. In the 70's and 80's there were no 20-30yr old hulls like these. There were wooden boats that didnt have the design of the Linders. Guys can rebuild and refit a 30 yr old boat over time and the cost is spread out. The good old dYs for boat builders were wheen they were wood and then when fiberglass was the new texhnology. Just my thoughts.

[WILDMAN]

One reason that most of the small boat makers are gone is due to lawsuits. They are, or were, small businesses. Anytime someone gets hurt in a go-fast boat, the first thing they do is sue the manufacturer. (Of course it's never the drivers fault) That just drives them into bankruptcy and it over! A lot of people ask why I don't build boats, that's why.

[wickedwitthestix]

I still think you should grab a 21 sport version and do it up. It would b awesome to watch and I guarantee someone will buy the finished product nomatter how much it cost. Also down there all people buy is big go fast cc. Some drop upwards twords a million dollars for them. The 24's and 30's could be had for penny's on the dollar be just as fast and those hulls go thru anything. I don't see how there can't be a market for a 30 cc w a pair of bone stock fishing motors that goes 80 mph through anything for 1/5 the cost of some of these go fast cc's that sell down there.

[mikesufka]

One reason that most of the small boat makers are gone is due to lawsuits. They are, or were, small businesses. Anytime someone gets hurt in a go-fast boat, the first thing they do is sue the manufacturer. (Of course it's never the drivers fault) That just drives them into bankruptcy and it over! A lot of people ask why I don't build boats, that's why.

Yeah Rapid Craft got taken out that way. What a shame - I always thought the Riot was a super cool looking boat.

MDS

[CUDA]

The middle class today is doing all it can just to pay it's bills let alone buy $$ toys.