New Boats Anymore ?????

[mikesufka]

I often said our performance boats will become flower bed some
day

Not mine

[Dave Strong]

Mike, the only thing I can think or explain the cost rise is!
Years back you were able to purchase a 20' boat, motor and trailer package for mid 20K now days it will be easy properly setup 50K. My neighbor just purchased a 20' ski boat for the kids he paid 60K out the door, that is up there IMPO.
This is no fault to builders or manufacturers it is just the cost of materials, parts, labor and insurance.
This is why a used boat becomes enticing not to mention no wait and the R&D is already done.
Heck you buy a boat from someone up north and you get a boat with little use.

Also think the fact the light 2stroke engines that made these boats so enjoyable are no longer produced . And don't get me started on Wake Board boats.
I'm with Mike and will keep my 2 under 20' 2stroke boats till I die.


Dave

[JPEROG]

I often said our performance boats will become flower bed some day

I wonder just how much more a cemetery plot would be for a 10 x 20 hole. I like my boats a lot better then coffins!!! If my kid doesn't come around and start showing interest in them then this might be a viable option for me-

As for the production of new boats-If the financing, consumer confidence, sence of job security, and number of "gearheads" was what it was 30 years ago then you would see more manufactures producing what this small group loves. I can remember going out to the sandbar as a kid just waiting to see the over transom jets and V-drive guys, then it switched to outboard tunnels, now they are all in tri-toons if they are out at all. There are a lot of factors that have caused the reduction in new boats being offered but the two main things are 1. lack of demand from younger people-mainly due to cost (including fuel & insurance availability) and or interest in the hobby. If there was a demand, guys and companies would go after the chance to make money. 2. Due to previous stated facts, there is no money in it for the builders-The performance guys that are making money "Skater, Statement, Cigarette, MTI, Mystic, and a few others" are having to charge more for a 40 foot boat then my two houses cost combined in order to do so.

I give praise to Todd for building the new Talons, Jack for building the new STVs, Mike for making the new Mirages, Allison for staying in the game, but I guarantee you that they all make more money in other areas then new boat sales and none of them are getting rich. There is more money for the small guys in doing repair, paint, part sales and rigging jobs. So the current builders have a special passion for their product.

Its all part of our "New America"-Just think that if Bernie was to some how get elected, we might all get free dingys or canoes LOL!!!

Joe

[eli]

me and the wife were talking about when its your time on this earth is up , seems like there dropping like flies
last few years ,i replied when its my time i hope i,m flying across the lake at 100 + then just go to sleep

[pointer]

Old style Voyager XT constructed with today's materials and tech please! Sign me up!

pointer

[Dave Strong]

me and the wife were talking about when its your time on this earth is up , seems like there dropping like flies
last few years ,i replied when its my time i hope i,m flying across the lake at 100 + then just go to sleep

I feel you, 8 this year.

Dave

[NY Switzer-Head]

My wife really thought that I should just buy a new boat when my Sk-175 sank this past August. She thought I was wasting my time and money in the garage at night fixing it. So, I entertained the idea and went looking for something that would fit the void of that boat. I ended up showing her the Checkmate 2100 Pulsare BR as being a comparable boat. http://www.checkmatepowerboats.net/C...e-2100-br.html

At a list price of $56k+ before options she stopped talking to me about it. Now she asks how I am progressing, and says "good" after I ramble on about composite orders, and grinding discs, and gel coat vs paint, and other things that she clearly glazes over as I talk about.

Out here in the finger lakes, you can still get away with these smaller boats. Chop isn't ever bad on the small lakes except for holiday weekends and serious bad weather. And on any lakes that "connect" to international water via the Seneca or Erie canals, there is no speed limit. We are on little 6 mile long Honeoye Lake, where so far, there is still no speed limit. But also out here, the Sheriff splits their time between three lakes, so they are rarely out all day or all weekend. And how can you complain about outboard noise compared to open 4" big block exhaust that is the prevailing trend among larger go fast boats?? But.. most new boats we see are pontoons. But there are a heck of a lot of old and redone Switzers on this and other finger lakes! Thanks Jerry Clearman and Trident Marine!!! And I, and many other local enthusiasts are rather young. We realize the cost of owning and maintaining these boats is a lot less than new ones. Less $$$, more fun!!

[Scream And Fly]

All very good points here, and I agree with them. The cost of powering a new boat now is pushing boating out of the reach of many people. I'm grateful that the supply of used engines is plentiful, however over years that will of course diminish. There is no doubt that the cost of the current engines is due mostly to the very high level of technology and engineering that goes into them. I just wish there were more cost-efficient solutions for larger-horsepower engines.

I remember in the mid-1990s, going into a Mercury dealer on Long Island that had a 175 HP Mercury, brand new on the stand for $7500.

Greg

[JPEROG]

Greg,

Remember that $7500.00 was a lot of money back then as well. The one that I couldn't believe was when I saw a mastercraft for over 200k at the Miami show. Another shocker was when a friend of mine in Northern Michigan told me that his new lund fishing boat was almost 70k- I have bought several ski boats in the past and yes the Maristar was expensive in the late 90s but nothing like todays world. Its just not possible for the average guy to get a new boat today.

Joe

[David]

It's not just money. People are buying expensive wakeboard and fishing boats instead of Allisons and Tuffs.

Pointer, you could buy a Voyager with modern materials and construction. They still make the odd Stream at Hydrostream Canada.

[WILDMAN]

Smilin Jacks in Florida used to sell Mercury 200's for $5995 in the late 80's. In 2003 I bought 12 2001 Johnson 225HO's for $5990 each when Bombardier needed money.

All very good points here, and I agree with them. The cost of powering a new boat now is pushing boating out of the reach of many people. I'm grateful that the supply of used engines is plentiful, however over years that will of course diminish. There is no doubt that the cost of the current engines is due mostly to the very high level of technology and engineering that goes into them. I just wish there were more cost-efficient solutions for larger-horsepower engines.

I remember in the mid-1990s, going into a Mercury dealer on Long Island that had a 175 HP Mercury, brand new on the stand for $7500.

Greg

[wickedwitthestix]

What size superboat are we talking? Basically all he makes is center consoles nowadays....they also seem to have a lot better of a following quality wise than liberator. No personal experience with liberator just from hear say on this site. Also how much more actual material is involved in making a superboat over a liberator? It seems like there's a lot more fiberglass involved in making a superboat just by looking at the 2 boats. That being said is it that much more than the checkmates you sell? Cause you do some beutiful work with them. I'd love to see you start from scrach and build a 21 superboat and see what you create. I'm sure I'm not alone. Would probably be something special. Do it!!!

[Rayzor]

It's definitely not cost. I see new wakeboard/wakesurf boats and pontoon boats idle behind my house all day long every weekend that all cost $50,000-$150,000. You can still buy a nice go-fast rig for that kind of money. The problem is guys, we're all a dying breed. I can't really give a good reason for it, but it's a reality of the world we live in. I also know that grass roots motocross racing has declined severely since when I raced back in the '80s and early '90s. Local races/racetracks are becoming fewer and fewer. It seems that all the younger generation cares about is their stupid IPhones and Facebook/Twitter/Snapchat and whatever other social media sites are out there. I live only an hour from where Google/Facebook/Twitter/Apple are headquartered, and I can tell you that those companies are making BILLIONS of $$$, while the few high performance boat companies left are not even making a profit. As others have already posted, I also give huge "kudos" to those that are still building high performance boats to keep what we all love alive. They're definitely doing it because it is their passion, because nobody will ever get rich doing it. I will always remember Peter Hledin telling me years ago, "You know how to become a millionaire in the boat business? Start with two million!"

[powerabout]

Whats the bare weight superboat to liberator?

[Coffee]

I agree with Rayzor about "us" being a dying breed. I live in South Africa and in the race series/scene in the 1980's and 1990's was really hot to trot. We had F1 regional and national events and also hosted international tour stops. We had a VP and Mod VP race series which was full of LTV's, STV's and a few Mirages, Sleekcraft's, and Allison GT20's. I remember watching the F1 events on TV as a kid and dreaming of owning a real Mercury race motor. I'm almost 30 now and F1 died in 2003 there are a few boats that are privately owned that see water once a year for a gas if they are lucky and the VP boats are all lying under a tree rotting in people's yards. In actuality that's really the case for any boat with a closed bow here. And the older bridge port motors were literally sold as scrap because they were really expensive to fix withour poor exchange rate and nobody wanted them. I know a boat dealer with nearly 20 cowls on a rack with no motors because they were all scavenged then scrapped when racing died. To me those motors are like treasure. I know of precious few in existence. Fast pleasure boating here is dead. There are maybe 30 guys in SA country wide who are like me and buy all the cool stuff and fix it up an enjoy it. Otherwise we are a dying breed. Big wakeboarding boats and bass boats have taken over and it's actually all about status. It's a dog show and little more. I bought an allison GT20 to restore for R3000 which is about $200 with a trailer which I'm adding to my slowly growing collection of unwanted but completely epic stuff that's how little boats from such an amazing era are worth.

My girlfriend doesn't get me. My mates don't understand it and my parents have given up. But I love it, truthfully I live for it. My soul sings everytime I'm trimmed out and flying my boats down the lake. It's God, me, my boat and the water (and the noise )