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  1. #1876
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark75H View Post
    I know OMC had actually proposed 110ci V-4 crossflows at one point, but backed off at the OPC commission's request.

    Rich, do you recall any specific "fat" engines in use?
    There were "fat" motors from Mod 50 on up. The guys highest on the food chain got the single ring pistons on T2x's first, for instance, well before most people in S class knew that they existed. I also remember having a twin ring T2x powerhead that gave me a certain set of numbers and was my best powerhead. We built a super secret engine that increased RPM's with an identical setup by almost 1000 RPM's. After it blew in testing while destroying the lap times of every other boat out there, an "engineering" powerhead was bolted on from "the truck" ....it was 500 RPM's lower than our monster motor, but still 500 RPM's higher than my other "best" powerhead. This was also true of water injection on the "Stackers" which was a system that appeared only on factory boats at the beginning. In the early 60's there were various ways to "parts bin balance" a Mercury powerhead if you had access to the warehouse at any of the distribution centers, or Fond Du Lac itself....etc, etc, etc.

    The other "magic potion" was access to props. Basically the top factory guys got pick of the litter and the rest were passed on down through second refusal, third refusal, and so on. The poor schlub "civilian" who bought his stuff retail without any internal contacts never stood a chance. Given that good props meant everything in terms of handling, acceleration, and top speed, this could mean precious seconds on each lap. Having Bob Hetzel at the ready to hand work your wheels at each race course was also of great value.

    T2x
    20 Foot Switzer Wing 2 X S3000 (Dust'n the Wind II)
    !6 foot Wood Eltro Vee (2X Merc 1500's) (Dust'n the Wind IV)
    15 foot Powercat 15C (2 X Merc 1500) (Dust'n the Wind III)
    (Single engine boats are lacking something)
    15’ Wooden Switzer Shooting Star...
    16 foot Lee Craft Merc S 3000-(Gold Dust II)
    (The exception proves the rule)
    Obsolete and Proud of it

  2. #1877
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    Those were the mod and factory classes - you knew going in that you were going to have to have help... The classes I was refering to were the so called Stock classes... mercury made it expensive to run in a class that they dominated.. The replacement lower unit mid season '72... low water pick-up - longer to help stop blow out.
    problem- not everyone could get one.... Hell!! they brought a "J" block to Texas (La Port) to run a least six to eight months before they were released. Until that time no SJ boat had pulled Jim out of the turn....That's a long time ago and I don't know how they play the game now......

  3. #1878
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    A guy in OZ posted a photo of his Mod50 or M31 engine that still had the drivers name punched into it (Lars Strom) so clearly a special to go to one special driver back in the day

  4. #1879
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    Another pic of Doug Pearl in his Scorpion
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Doug Pearl Scorpion Miami.jpg  

  5. #1880
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyR View Post
    Those were the mod and factory classes - you knew going in that you were going to have to have help... The classes I was refering to were the so called Stock classes... mercury made it expensive to run in a class that they dominated.. The replacement lower unit mid season '72... low water pick-up - longer to help stop blow out.
    problem- not everyone could get one.... Hell!! they brought a "J" block to Texas (La Port) to run a least six to eight months before they were released. Until that time no SJ boat had pulled Jim out of the turn....That's a long time ago and I don't know how they play the game now......
    Bobby:

    The "parts bin balancing" I referred to was for the stock motors as well and dates back to the early 60's in line 6 800's and later 1000's. It may also have occurred with various E (49 cu.in) and F (59 cu in) in line 4's in OPC. The best 1100's I ever ran were a set of "pacemakers" ( factory "rebuilt")that came directly from the old man after the Orange Bowl Regatta in '66.... When we took them apart they were perfectly balanced without a machine mark on them and factory sealed to boot.

    As far as today is concerned there really isn't much of a "game" involved. Merc doesn't make a true race engine other than the current Optimax 200 Champ motor program. The older full race non "green" motors can only be purchased as parts at a cost of about 40 grand each. The 4 cycle stuff is equally pricey and goes mostly to the "Charlie Checkbooks" who stuff them into exquisitively painted Poker Run behemoths to show off.
    Last edited by T2x; 08-23-2011 at 08:41 AM.
    20 Foot Switzer Wing 2 X S3000 (Dust'n the Wind II)
    !6 foot Wood Eltro Vee (2X Merc 1500's) (Dust'n the Wind IV)
    15 foot Powercat 15C (2 X Merc 1500) (Dust'n the Wind III)
    (Single engine boats are lacking something)
    15’ Wooden Switzer Shooting Star...
    16 foot Lee Craft Merc S 3000-(Gold Dust II)
    (The exception proves the rule)
    Obsolete and Proud of it

  6. #1881
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark75H View Post
    Another pic of Doug Pearl in his Scorpion
    Bobby isthat Jim Slack in his rooster tail? 1188 looks like a "Bunky Bowerman Cougar" similar to Slacks.
    20 Foot Switzer Wing 2 X S3000 (Dust'n the Wind II)
    !6 foot Wood Eltro Vee (2X Merc 1500's) (Dust'n the Wind IV)
    15 foot Powercat 15C (2 X Merc 1500) (Dust'n the Wind III)
    (Single engine boats are lacking something)
    15’ Wooden Switzer Shooting Star...
    16 foot Lee Craft Merc S 3000-(Gold Dust II)
    (The exception proves the rule)
    Obsolete and Proud of it

  7. #1882
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    Not to sure ... That picture looks like Miami if -im went to Miami it was after my time with him. Jim's boats were normally blue with a lighting strip on the cowl. The first one was a James Beard Cougar that had been a OMC factory team boat. It was in Denver....There were two boats the the OMC group were releasing at that time - a pickle fork Schultz that Bobby Witt had in Baytown ( this went to John Sherlock later) and the Cougar of Johnny Sanders - don't remember the race team name (McCune maybe) I think it was Johnny's inlaws but not sure. Jim decided on the Cougar ( I don't think he liked the pickle) So he and his dad drove to Colorado and back and had it to me about three or four days before the Galveston race. It was stripped not even a foot throttle...
    We tested it in the river in the am before the race for the first time. He left for Galveston I went to bed....I had hooked the trim up backwards and it would led down on the stright away. He came to the trailer once in the race to see if he was taking on water. He placed secound in class... Before the race he had had two runs on the river that did not include turns. We were running so close that I had not bolted the engine down in case I had to raise of lower it. This not brag just fact - there was not a lot of racing equipment in the Houston area - I had to make most of the equipment- steering bar -foot throttle -foot rest with down button - trim indecator- reinforced the tramsom wih aluminum and the little things like the motor and trim.. So that is the reason I did not make the the first race with the cougar. Jim was a great driver and proved that on many courses and at times like these New boat -new set up and would have finish first but for my mistake.....Jim got some factory help after me.....
    Oh! and T2X I did not have a shop at that time just a carport.....just like Miami.....
    As part of my training I built pacemakers at the Sarasota Branch. The flywheels were painted what we called Sarasote Blue.. Any dealer that did not take advantage of this must not have under stood the program. We tore engines (running or not) completely down and built them back from the ground up - there were tested -completed repainted and sold with full warranty.... That was the day of stacking needle bearing.
    When the guy on the bench next to you was in the test booth with his motor you would carefully place a needle bear on his work table...
    Had to stop some from tearing their motor back down....

  8. #1883
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyR View Post
    Not to sure ... That picture looks like Miami if -im went to Miami it was after my time with him. Jim's boats were normally blue with a lighting strip on the cowl. The first one was a James Beard Cougar that had been a OMC factory team boat. It was in Denver....There were two boats the the OMC group were releasing at that time - a pickle fork Schultz that Bobby Witt had in Baytown ( this went to John Sherlock later) and the Cougar of Johnny Sanders - don't remember the race team name (McCune maybe) I think it was Johnny's inlaws but not sure. Jim decided on the Cougar ( I don't think he liked the pickle) So he and his dad drove to Colorado and back and had it to me about three or four days before the Galveston race. It was stripped not even a foot throttle...
    We tested it in the river in the am before the race for the first time. He left for Galveston I went to bed....I had hooked the trim up backwards and it would led down on the stright away. He came to the trailer once in the race to see if he was taking on water. He placed secound in class... Before the race he had had two runs on the river that did not include turns. We were running so close that I had not bolted the engine down in case I had to raise of lower it. This not brag just fact - there was not a lot of racing equipment in the Houston area - I had to make most of the equipment- steering bar -foot throttle -foot rest with down button - trim indecator- reinforced the tramsom wih aluminum and the little things like the motor and trim.. So that is the reason I did not make the the first race with the cougar. Jim was a great driver and proved that on many courses and at times like these New boat -new set up and would have finish first but for my mistake.....Jim got some factory help after me.....
    Oh! and T2X I did not have a shop at that time just a carport.....just like Miami.....
    As part of my training I built pacemakers at the Sarasota Branch. The flywheels were painted what we called Sarasote Blue.. Any dealer that did not take advantage of this must not have under stood the program. We tore engines (running or not) completely down and built them back from the ground up - there were tested -completed repainted and sold with full warranty.... That was the day of stacking needle bearing.
    When the guy on the bench next to you was in the test booth with his motor you would carefully place a needle bear on his work table...
    Had to stop some from tearing their motor back down....
    It was Mac McCune from Denver...I am not sure about his relationship with Saunders but he did run a multi engine OMC at Havasu a couple of times.

    Sherlock's Schultz was one of the fastest SJ boats in the country so Jim Slack would have been okay with either hull...although John did considerable work on all of his boats to make them run his way.

    I love the needle bearing prank.......It seemed like it took forever to build up an entire powerhead....especially since we did not like to use assembly grease....
    20 Foot Switzer Wing 2 X S3000 (Dust'n the Wind II)
    !6 foot Wood Eltro Vee (2X Merc 1500's) (Dust'n the Wind IV)
    15 foot Powercat 15C (2 X Merc 1500) (Dust'n the Wind III)
    (Single engine boats are lacking something)
    15’ Wooden Switzer Shooting Star...
    16 foot Lee Craft Merc S 3000-(Gold Dust II)
    (The exception proves the rule)
    Obsolete and Proud of it

  9. #1884
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    T2x
    You show you have twin 1500's on a power cat -are they the 15" XS models???? Think I still have a down housing and low water pick-up lowerunit....
    Also Bob Johnson was my instructor at Sarasota. Wow!!! That was during the D/Rdays.. Dock busters was the name the public had given them...<o></o>

    Someone mentioned Bill Allen… I had the pleasure of meeting him at Oshkosh and was impressed withhis knowledge of engines. He taught me a couple of things while there. Used them well……Thanks Bill…<o></o>
    Last edited by BobbyR; 08-23-2011 at 03:58 PM.

  10. #1885
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    Johnnie Sanders started out racing for Mac McCune's Racing, out of Denver, Colorado, in the mid '60's. In 1968, at the Havasu World Championships, they entered a semi-vee with triple Johnson GT-115's!I believe Johnnie Sanders married one of the McCune daughters. In '69 Sanders entered a Glastron/Molinari with dual Johnson Stingers & listed his wife (McCune daughter), as co-driver at Havasu WOC! The head referee quickly "kyboshed" the chance of her being the 1st woman to drive, in the Outboard World Championships! Talk about sexism, in the sport!
    Quote Originally Posted by T2x View Post
    It was Mac McCune from Denver...I am not sure about his relationship with Saunders but he did run a multi engine OMC at Havasu a couple of times.

    Sherlock's Schultz was one of the fastest SJ boats in the country so Jim Slack would have been okay with either hull...although John did considerable work on all of his boats to make them run his way.

    I love the needle bearing prank.......It seemed like it took forever to build up an entire powerhead....especially since we did not like to use assembly grease....

  11. #1886
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyR View Post
    T2x
    You show you have twin 1500's on a power cat -are they the 15" XS models???? Think I still have a down housing and low water pick-up lowerunit....
    o></o>
    No they are standard 15" 1500's with stock gearcases. I am in the process of sending them out for restoration and the Powercat is about half restored with complete balsa core, stringers and a new transom in place. I have been looking at various lower unit options from SSM's to low water pick ups. We can discuss this at OFF......
    20 Foot Switzer Wing 2 X S3000 (Dust'n the Wind II)
    !6 foot Wood Eltro Vee (2X Merc 1500's) (Dust'n the Wind IV)
    15 foot Powercat 15C (2 X Merc 1500) (Dust'n the Wind III)
    (Single engine boats are lacking something)
    15’ Wooden Switzer Shooting Star...
    16 foot Lee Craft Merc S 3000-(Gold Dust II)
    (The exception proves the rule)
    Obsolete and Proud of it

  12. #1887
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark benson View Post
    Johnnie Sanders started out racing for Mac McCune's Racing, out of Denver, Colorado, in the mid '60's. In 1968, at the Havasu World Championships, they entered a semi-vee with triple Johnson GT-115's!I believe Johnnie Sanders married one of the McCune daughters. In '69 Sanders entered a Glastron/Molinari with dual Johnson Stingers & listed his wife (McCune daughter), as co-driver at Havasu WOC! The head referee quickly "kyboshed" the chance of her being the 1st woman to drive, in the Outboard World Championships! Talk about sexism, in the sport!
    Mark......

    I believe Johnnie started racing for Alan Yaw's, Abilene Marine, in Texas where he grew up. The first time I met him was in 1965 when he entered a 16 Glastron with Johnson's on it in the Hudson River Marathon....carrying the Abilene Marine banner. I am not sure how he met Mac Mc Cune but that partnership came a little later. I recall McCune running a dual engine 4 point at one time.

    Saunders raced under the Abilene Marine banner for most of his career which was a direct OMC factory team. The other driver of note on that team was Tommy Posey.......in the 70's both of them, under Alan Yaw's guidance raced the best stuff that OMC had from Rotaries to injected methanol burning OZ V-6's... on Scotti's and Molinari's.
    Last edited by T2x; 08-24-2011 at 07:07 AM.
    20 Foot Switzer Wing 2 X S3000 (Dust'n the Wind II)
    !6 foot Wood Eltro Vee (2X Merc 1500's) (Dust'n the Wind IV)
    15 foot Powercat 15C (2 X Merc 1500) (Dust'n the Wind III)
    (Single engine boats are lacking something)
    15’ Wooden Switzer Shooting Star...
    16 foot Lee Craft Merc S 3000-(Gold Dust II)
    (The exception proves the rule)
    Obsolete and Proud of it

  13. #1888
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    Sanders/ McCune/ 4 point

    Quote Originally Posted by T2x View Post
    .....I believe Johnnie started racing for Alan Yaw's, Abilene Marine, in Texas where he grew up..... I recall McCune running a dual engine 4 point at one time.
    I don't know where Sanders actually started, but when I began going to races for Mercury, he definitely was running for Yaw's Abilene Marine. They ran a number of different classes and did well. I'd guess that was why OMC decided to offer some help in terms of motors and props. As racing evolved into the factory team efforts, Johnny became a OMC Team driver. I think Posey continued to drive for Abilene for a while and was Johnny's co-driver in the big marathons. Later, Posey also became a OMC Team driver.

    McCune had a OMC dealership/ marina in Denver. He was also a boat racer, but didn't run all the events. I don't know what kind of help he may have received from OMC. Somewhere along the way, Johnny met Mac's daughter Melinda (pretty sure that name is correct) and eventually they married. He moved to Denver to help run the business and continued to drive for OMC. Seems to me that Mac was running single engine Cougars at that time. I don't remember him running a twin although he may have co-driven with Ted May?

    I was thinking that it was a Cougar that Melinda had entered at Havasu. I think that someone learned that she had driven the boat, but had never raced anywhere. A complaint was lodged and the racing authority decided it was unsafe for her (and other drivers) to gather racing experience at the OWC. It was a BS decision, but she wasn't allowed to run. At least, that's how my memory banks have recorded that timeframe of history.

    Here'sssss Johnny and the 4 point I think you were referring to.....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Picture 005.jpg   Ted May - McDonald - Parker 1969.jpg  
    Last edited by willabee; 08-24-2011 at 10:42 AM.

  14. #1889
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    I remember In St Louis, the year that OMC ran Methanol under OZ rules and Merc showed with methanol...and nitrous. This was basically the pinnacle of the "factory wars". Posey, Jimbo, Sanders, Stevenson and Cees were running factory Veldens under Leek's eagle eye....but...Alan Yaw was there and , I believe, to the best of my fading memory cells, that both Sanders and Posey's boats carried the Abilene Marine name on the hulls.... I know the boats were straight factory "team" rides but somehow Yaw stayed in the mix......
    Last edited by T2x; 08-24-2011 at 01:04 PM.
    20 Foot Switzer Wing 2 X S3000 (Dust'n the Wind II)
    !6 foot Wood Eltro Vee (2X Merc 1500's) (Dust'n the Wind IV)
    15 foot Powercat 15C (2 X Merc 1500) (Dust'n the Wind III)
    (Single engine boats are lacking something)
    15’ Wooden Switzer Shooting Star...
    16 foot Lee Craft Merc S 3000-(Gold Dust II)
    (The exception proves the rule)
    Obsolete and Proud of it

  15. #1890
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    In the 1969 Lake Havasu Outboard World Championships Official Program I note # 115 Lou Cooley from St. Louis, Missouri; co-driver Dorthy Cooley St. Louis, Missouri; 20' Power Cat; three Chrysler 135 Stackers! I heard she drove this boat or one like it, in one of the Mississippi River Marathons or endurance races! Does anyone recall if she got any "seat time", in the mid to late '60's at the Outboard World Championships?
    Quote Originally Posted by mark benson View Post
    Johnnie Sanders started out racing for Mac McCune's Racing, out of Denver, Colorado, in the mid '60's. In 1968, at the Havasu World Championships, they entered a semi-vee with triple Johnson GT-115's!I believe Johnnie Sanders married one of the McCune daughters. In '69 Sanders entered a Glastron/Molinari with dual Johnson Stingers & listed his wife (McCune daughter), as co-driver at Havasu WOC! The head referee quickly "kyboshed" the chance of her being the 1st woman to drive, in the Outboard World Championships! Talk about sexism, in the sport!

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