GM and Ford

[JUPITER PULSARE]

Well if Obama, Pelosi and Reid think it's a good idea. Who am I to argue?
Besides, you Michigan guys really scared, er uh convinced me into seeing the way.
And I sure wouldn't want 1BadAction to think I'm unpatriotic because we don't agree that socialism is bad.
But this post really closed the deal for me, because I know you cannot attain these positions within a dealership by being less than honest or trustworthy. Sounds like JUPITER is acting as a secret double agent, Detroit's man on the inside, so to speak.
Positioning himself inside the Honda store is genius. He can then warn off potential Honda clients by grinning and flashing his Capt America underpants.


Thanks for re-educating this 25 year veteran of the auto business. You really can teach an old dog new tricks

LMAO!!! Glad to see I can still teach somebody something!! For the past 8 years I've been in a GMC/Pontiac/Buick store...it was great until the beginning of this year and it's been a steady downhill spiral. The dealership transfered me to their import (HONDA) store 4 months ago because the import sales were strong and the domestic sales were/are DEAD. It was great for my paycheck but hard on my pride. I would much rather be back at GMC/Pontiac/Buick. And yes, every chance I get I make a little stab at the imports and tell my customers they should buy an extended warranty because all vehicles have a chance of breaking down ....and imports are more expensive to fix than domestic cars!!!

[JR IN JAX]

LMAO!!! Glad to see I can still teach somebody something!! For the past 8 years I've been in a GMC/Pontiac/Buick store...it was great until the beginning of this year and it's been a steady downhill spiral. The dealership transfered me to their import (HONDA) store 4 months ago because the import sales were strong and the domestic sales were/are DEAD. It was great for my paycheck but hard on my pride. I would much rather be back at GMC/Pontiac/Buick. And yes, every chance I get I make a little stab at the imports and tell my customers they should buy an extended warranty because all vehicles have a chance of breaking down ....and imports are more expensive to fix than domestic cars!!!

I have heard that many times about the Hondas being more costly to repair, but Consumer Reports does not bear this out.

The cost of ownership is roughly the same, especially when the resale is factored in.

BTW, I trust Consumers Report over Powers, Motor Trend or any of the others since they do not accept advertising money/payments from anyone.

They even buy the products they test right out of the showroom as an anonymous buyer...

Seldom does their tests list a "domestic" as a good choice. Usually the domestics are the "Bayliners" of the ratings.

[Kartracer]

I have heard that many times about the Hondas being more costly to repair, but Consumer Reports does not bear this out.

The cost of ownership is roughly the same, especially when the resale is factored in.

BTW, I trust Consumers Report over Powers, Motor Trend or any of the others since they do not accept advertising money/payments from anyone.

They even buy the products they test right out of the showroom as an anonymous buyer...

Seldom does their tests list a "domestic" as a good choice. Usually the domestics are the "Bayliners" of the ratings.

Consumers Reports is one of the worst ones of them. They tend to be very against domestics with the usual misnomers.

[Pro300x24LD]

It's clear JR Jax is correct and we are all wrong. Consumers reports is the best, Domestics suck and foreign automakers are the best and most importantly the econmy will not suffer one bit if the domestics continue to struggle, we should ship all manufacturing offshore.

JR what kind of job do you have?

[Capt.Insane-o]

So because I [and most others] don't want to buy a car that is mostly made in Mexico and the rest is by a radical Union that supports everything I am against, I am an America Hater?

Get real.

Surely you all can come up with a better reason than that to Steal Tax money and give to your Union Bosses.

I support my country but not the Communists who want to take over it's Government.

Hey, peel off that cowl of that Pro Max there and read us off the stickers where most of the components on that motor come from. Better trade it in on a Honda!

[Hydrophobic guy]

Usually the domestics are the "Bayliners" of the ratings.

HEY!!!
Whats that supposed to mean???
Don't be dissin the fine craftsmanship of Bayliner.

[sho305]

HEY!!!
Whats that supposed to mean???
Don't be dissin the fine craftsmanship of Bayliner.

That's right, my bayliner has no core to rot either It even made 20 years on the original transom sitting in the water every summer, not bad for such a quality boat, lol!

Last CR I read showed Toyota taking a nose dive from the top quality ratings. Issue with CR is they go by polls of readers, who listen to the media! Funny part is I have not seen the media rag domestics much in last couple years, but people don't like to research they just vote the same as last year...and year before....and then get a financial collapse from those people, whom we should not blame. That would be MEAN now would it not? Better for us to suffer and be broke...and be nice to those worthless people so they can keep THEIR jobs!!! We shall worship them as we do the media!!! Bow down!!

Where was the mass 'news' media this summer when it come to banking issues....

[mr_velocity]

Where was the mass 'news' media this summer when it come to banking issues....

The banking issues is far too complex for the media to understand never mind trying to put it into a form that average American could understand. At least Paris or Britney hasn't been in the new lately, once the Obama is no longer hyped, and they're beyond beating on Palin we'll be getting another dose of Paris.

[Mark75H]

Statistical anomaly ... Chevy Astro vans are one of the safest vehicles ever produced. The statisticians are not sure if it has something to do with the vehicle itself or the people who drive them ... but it is one of the vehicles involved in the least fatal accidents per unit sold. This isn't crash test data, its real life ... US made and beats everything else close to it sold in North America ... but, sadly no longer in production.


Now, jumping back a few dozen posts, if Ford and GM go bankrupt, there will be many jobs lost ... but the auto industry in North America will not completely disappear as the propagandists would have you believe. Many direct and indirect auto manufacturing jobs will be lost, but certainly NOT ALL OF THEM AS SO MANY PROPAGANDISTS KEEP REPEATING

It would appear to me that the chief beneficiaries of bailing out the US auto industry would not be the hourly workers nor the sad owners of GM stock, but the fat cats sitting in union offices doing nothing productive

[JR IN JAX]

You can knock Consumer Reports since that is right from the UAW "Talking Points".

They were the ones that discovered, not the Federal Gov, that the Isuzu Rodeo would roll over and that the Saturn Vue had the rear crossmember bolts snap off in their test course. The Feds changed their test to copy CR's.

I find that the products that they recommend as a "best buy" are some of the best products I have ever purchased. They are also stocked on the shelves of the largest retailers shortly afterward.

The times that I disregarded their advice [my last Ford Chateau Van] made me regret doing it. The items they shoot down on each vehicle have a greater than 50% chance of failing on yours.

Unlike Powers and the Motor review magazines, you can't buy them off with a lot of money the way the UAW buys Democrat Politicians.

[MODXR6]

Statistical anomaly ... Chevy Astro vans are one of the safest vehicles ever produced. The statisticians are not sure if it has something to do with the vehicle itself or the people who drive them ... but it is one of the vehicles involved in the least fatal accidents per unit sold. This isn't crash test data, its real life ... US made and beats everything else close to it sold in North America ... but, sadly no longer in production.


Now, jumping back a few dozen posts, if Ford and GM go bankrupt, there will be many jobs lost ... but the auto industry in North America will not completely disappear as the propagandists would have you believe. Many direct and indirect auto manufacturing jobs will be lost, but certainly NOT ALL OF THEM AS SO MANY PROPAGANDISTS KEEP REPEATING

It would appear to me that the chief beneficiaries of bailing out the US auto industry would not be the hourly workers nor the sad owners of GM stock, but the fat cats sitting in union offices doing nothing productive

Unless the astros have a flat at 70 mph running on the interstate...then they become THE DEATH BOX

There are 2 chevy's in my driveway so I'm not bashing just got the gravestones to visit to prove it...This isn't crash test data, its real life ...

[transomstand]

GM cars suck, don't last worth a damn. Anybody got an 86 Accord for sale I can tow my Stream with? I'll be in the market soon, don't think I can get more than another 5 or 10 years out of this clunker

[mr_velocity]

Good, bad, economical, ugly, sleek, doesn't matter there will always be a vehicle that meets someones wants or needs.

The issue is GM can not cover all their costs on the margins of the product they produce, period. There is nothing more to this issue. They also need to compete on a global scale, just like the rest of us....or can my company expect a bailout too since the global market place is tough

The company needs to go Chap 11 so they can restructure in order so survive. Any bail out money will get them through the next couple of months and they will again find themselves in the same position. I don't support a bail out to the auto industry, at least right now. If they filed Chap 11 and came back with a solid restructuring plan that got their costs under control I would support giving them a bailout at that time.

[JR IN JAX]

GM cars suck, don't last worth a damn. Anybody got an 86 Accord for sale I can tow my Stream with? I'll be in the market soon, don't think I can get more than another 5 or 10 years out of this clunker

Get rid of the 'stream, buy an Allison GSE and a Honda Pilot/Accura MDX [if you don't need as much headroom] to pull it with. Life will be good!

[sho305]

I think GM now has the best selling car in Russia and just opened a new factory, along with No. 1 seller Buick in China, what more global do you guys want? I agree all the automakers and other industry here needs to solve this legacy cost issue so they can get on with things, but if you want a global US company to keep going we need to make sure GM squeaks through this spot IMO...and I'm more of a Ford guy.

They can stay in business if they sell enough cars. The problem here in MI is the unions that demand $30/hr. There are hundreds of thousands of people that would be happy to work for $20 but no that factory gets closed so nobody can work there ever again. Now we see GM on the edge, the union likely still thinks GM has a money printing machine in the back room and its all a lie....or they don't care if GM goes under. They made out when things were good, now they screw everybody instead of rolling with current conditions...and management is not very good at dealing with them.