More mathematics of electricity

[pcrussell50]

Looks like both xAI and OpenAI are buying gas turbines to meet their energy needs.

xAI is buying 29 of them (for starters). They are ground based versions of the old CF6 that used to power the 747. They generate about 47,000 hp. Each. Or about 35 megawatts. Again, each. And xAI is buying 29 of them.

BUT… Why use gas turbines pumping out C02 by the tonne, when you don’t need the light weight to fly an airplane? Why not use solar panels instead? Answer: Destruction of land and open space. It would take up to 350 acres of land covered in solar panels to equal the output ONE CF6-based gas turbine generator. And xAI needs 29 of them.

So this is another area where it’s not just power to weight ratio that makes fossil better for boats and airplanes. It’s also protection of land and wildlife habitat, where fossil offers benefits.

-Peter

[XstreamVking]

Those run on kerosene or natural gas right?

[pcrussell50]

Those run on kerosene or natural gas right?

Yes. Gas turbines can run on almost anything that can be made to flow properly through the fuel lines and nozzles.

BUT…

For aviation (where reliability is THE primary concern), the FAA does not allow an airline to just run anything it wants, any time it wants. Alternative fuels to JetA take years and years of trials before the FAA will approve it for taking paying passengers.

But for ground based power generation, the rules are almost certainly more lax. I’d imagine that GE offers a warranty of some sort and that the terms of the warranty would require only certain known fuels that GE has tested and knows will not damage the engine.

Related: we have steps we take in the cockpit to operate our engines in such a way that you don’t coke or carbon up the fuel (simplex and duplex) nozzles. Coked up fuel nozzles create uneven spray patterns which can cause hot spots here and there to say nothing of reduced fuel economy. We basically have to let the engines run at or near idle after landing for three minutes before shutting one down, even though taxiing on one engine instead of two, saves fuel.

-Peter

[wettek]

Looks like both xAI and OpenAI are buying gas turbines to meet their energy needs.

xAI is buying 29 of them (for starters). They are ground based versions of the old CF6 that used to power the 747. They generate about 47,000 hp. Each. Or about 35 megawatts. Again, each. And xAI is buying 29 of them.

BUT… Why use gas turbines pumping out C02 by the tonne, when you don’t need the light weight to fly an airplane? Why not use solar panels instead? Answer: Destruction of land and open space. It would take up to 350 acres of land covered in solar panels to equal the output ONE CF6-based gas turbine generator. And xAI needs 29 of them.


So this is another area where it’s not just power to weight ratio that makes fossil better for boats and airplanes. It’s also protection of land and wildlife habitat, where fossil offers benefits.

-Peter

LM6000? We run 16 of them in the plant I am in, PF & PF+ 47MW. Nice machines

[pcrussell50]

LM6000? We run 16 of them in the plant I am in, PF & PF+ 47MW. Nice machines

As an airline pilot, I'm more familiar with the aviation versions, but it looks like the LM6000 is also based off the CF6 like the LM2500XPRESS that xAI and OpenAI are buying. So I had to look up the LM6000. Thanks for the tossing in here What is your role in these engines? Are you working in a power plant to provide energy for homes? Or a business that needs reliable energy, and a LOT of it?

I know that the hottest thing in green energy is gas turbines. Because if you think about it, since wind and solar are part-time/unreliable, you either have to have backup for when they are weak or dead... Or have brown outs and blackouts. California has chosen rolling brown outs. But not all parts of the USA are willing to put up with that. So the solar and wind operations have gas turbines for backup.

-Peter

[wettek]

LNG plant. 12 LM6000, driving propane, ethane and methane compressors, all hot end drive. 4 LM6000, driving alternators for power gen, all cold end drive. LM2500s out on our offshore platform. All running on gas.
You can't go past gas turbines, small footprint for the power, fast ramp up, good "turn down" ability. GE make a good engine.

[AlliStan]

Almost all CTs (combustible turbines for electricity generation) are powered by natural gas. Inspections for cracks are necessary, as is maintenance on any other power plant. As was mentioned earlier they're the ticket for peaking plants, power plants that can be fired up on a moments' notice to shave peaks in power load during times of intense heat or cold, when cooling and heating are in the greatest demand.

[Chaz]

The commie's and their commie parrots that wanted to force us so use electric golf carts and solar or wind mills to charge them and power our homes .. should be forced to use only that garbage for at least the next three and a half years ...

[Chaz]

Of course, solar panel fields are a low priority on POTUS Trump's list of American energy sources. Posting something from the FJB era is only meaningful to left wing idiots living in the past.

To their credit, both Trump federally and Gov. Desantis here in Florida did cut regulations on all forms of energy .. including solar.

We currently have three nuke plants (5 reactors) here in Florida. There were plans drawn up to build another west of Palm Coast Florida. I would imagine FPL would rather invest in another nuke plant rather than waste thousands of acres on panel farms since there is no longer any federal (strong arm) incentive to do so.

Hey .. how bout them super wiz-bang batteries that have been just around the corner for the last 150 years ....

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2025/01/...energy-policy/

[NICE PAIR]

I heard they were stepping up their game, Elon's gonna give em a "Deal" on some low milage batteries.

[XstreamVking]

Chinese will love the 30 million solar panel sale they will make. Wonder who's brokering that deal?

[NICE PAIR]

I heard that Biden was working @ a used solar panel yard.

[Chaz]

Are you kidding me .. ??? They are still calling FJB for money .. err ... advice.

Keep the junk-azz batteries and solar panels . I'll take a quart of Wan-Tan soup and pork flied lice

[David]

Solar and wind power are quite competitive with natural gas these days for generating electricity. I'd want some back up for a dark still winter night.

[pcrussell50]

Tax subsidies for oil, gas and coal development are expected to reduce federal revenue by $12.9 billion from 2022 to 2026 (figure 1).

Eh. Do you know what the actual subsidies given/paid by the taxpayers to the oil companies are? By actual subsidies I don’t mean oil companies not paying for someone’s health issues, or oil companies not paying for damages from a blizzard or a typhoon. I mean actual subsidies. Things that are recorded on tax documents. Nerdy accounting stuff that shows a transfer of money from taxpayers to oil companies. The latest list of actual subsidies to big oil that I could find is… Not very impressive for your cause. You will not like it. But it is what it is, sorry.

It’s a short read five minutes maybe. Give it a go:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/drillin...gas-subsidies/

These are the subsidies:
-Master Limited Partnerships,
-Intangible Drilling Costs,
-Royalty Payment Reductions on Federal Lands,
-Depletion Allowance,
-Domestic Manufacturing Deduction,
-Foreign Tax Credit

Each item is described in the article. Some of them (most?) are subsidies that other US businesses get, too.

Now, this list was published in 2016. I can’t imagine that in today’s climate of green madness, that oil and gas subsidies have gotten bigger. But if you can find the latest list of oil and gas subsidies, I’m down.

edit to add: just skimmed Cudes article about subsidies. The devil is in the details. Add up those amounts that oil/gas will get. It should add up to less than one day’s worth of Federal budget…. And don’t forget that many other businesses are entitled to some of the same subsidies.

-Peter