Whether you support electric technology or not, this is impressive

[mach351]

That is pretty interesting. Do you know who it is?

I think they are familiar with the guys building that one in England. Driver is part of the Bluebird K7 restoration team I follow. Those guys are amazing. I have no doubt Ted’s boat there is going to run well.

[CUDA]

The Tesla Semi and the Cybertruck run on 800 Volt systems. The talk was 1,000 volts in the future.

“For very heavy vehicles, a high voltage powertrain architecture brings notable cost savings, which is why Cybertruck will adopt an 800-volt architecture.” From a cost perspective, 800-volt architectures are void of as much copper throughout the vehicle, which reduces weight.Oct 20, 2023


https://www.engineering.com/story/hi...re-on-the-rise


High Voltage Vehicles: Why 800-Volt EVs are on the Rise
Many electric vehicle makers are transitioning from 400-volt to 800-volt systems for faster charging and higher efficiency—but some, like Tesla, are holding out.

WRITTEN BY
EdisOsmanbasic
Edis Osmanbasic
PUBLISHED
Aug 14, 2023
READING TIME
~5 mins
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As demand for electric vehicles (EVs) increases worldwide, drivers expect better performance. Longer range and faster charging are among their demands, and both boil down to the battery.There are numerous research projects focused on solving these challenges, but the most promising one is increasing the battery voltage. Today’s EV batteries are commonly 400-volt systems, but EV manufacturers have already begun redesigning their vehicles to shift to 800-volt architectures.Higher battery voltage means more energy and higher charging power, plus increased efficiency, better performance and weight savings for EV components such as motors and inverters. But high voltages come with new challenges as well. Here’s a look at why the EV industry is so keen to move to higher voltages—and how engineers are making it happen.
What it means to have a 400-volt or 800-volt EV architecture
The architecture of an EV is a complex system involving batteries, motors, sensors, electronic controls, auxiliary equipment, wiring and other components. The battery voltage, whether 400 volts or 800 volts, affects all of them.image-center
An 800-volt system architecture requires redesigning many components in an EV. (Image: Porsche.)

These values are not as fixed as their name suggests. For example, a battery voltage range of 300 – 500 volts is referred to as a 400-volt architecture, and a 600 – 900 volt range is considered an 800-volt architecture. Shifting to an 800-volt architecture is not a matter of simply connecting batteries to get a voltage of 800 volts; this operating voltage is a key parameter for designing all other high-voltage devices in the car.
Why EV manufacturers want to shift to 800 volts
Higher battery voltages mean increased EV efficiency, improved performance and better charging. For drivers, that means faster charging and less energy consumption.The main parameter for charging speed is charger output power, which depends on voltage and current. Increasing the charging current would lead to more heat and energy loss, so increasing the voltage is a better way to increase power and get faster charging. With double the voltage and equal current, an EV charger could deliver almost twice the energy to EVs. Of course, the chargers and EV’s converters have to be redesigned to be able to carry significantly higher power.The 800-volt architecture also reduces energy consumption. If a battery outputs the same power as its voltage increases, that means its current must decrease. Since heating and power losses are proportional to the square of the current, heat loss goes down as voltage goes up. Lower current also has a positive effect on battery aging, thereby extending the battery life.
Challenges of the 800-volt EV architecture
The 800-volt EV architecture has unquestionable advantages, but there are still challenges that must be overcome to smoothly integrate the technology in the market.Charging infrastructure is the first issue. Charging speed depends on charging stations, and most are built to provide power for 400-volt EVs. To take full advantage of faster charging capabilities, 800-volt EVs will require more powerful charging stations.Another issue is in EV design. The 800-volt architecture requires redesigning the circuits and components to ensure appropriate insulation, fail-safe systems and the right test procedures to prove the reliability of components in a high-voltage environment. The testing procedures must cover worst-case scenarios up to five times higher than the operating voltage of 800 volts.The equipment costs tend to be higher for 800-volt EVs as well. For example, they tend to use pricier silicon carbide (SiC) switching components in power converters. SiC enables increased switching frequency with very low energy losses (2%) when compared to traditional silicon-based converters (5 – 6%). However, because of the lower current in 800-volt EVs, the wires and links can be thicker and cooling requirements are lower.There are also safety concerns. Higher voltage systems need more physical space to avoid problems like overvoltage and arcing. Capacitors, for instance, require a minimum creepage distance between polarities to avoid arcing. As the voltage is higher, the required distance is longer—meaning bigger capacitors. This is very unfavorable for EV manufacturers, who want to make everything smaller and lighter to increase efficiency.
Different solutions for the 800-volt architecture
EV manufacturers have analyzed various approaches to overcome the challenges of 800-volt architectures. There are three promising approaches.The first approach is to make the entire EV’s high-voltage system operate on 800 volts, eliminating the need for voltage conversion between components. This approach enables faster charging and better efficiency. However, it requires more EV redesign and higher costs.The second approach is to have only some essential devices (like the battery pack and drive motor) on 800 volts, with the rest of the system remaining at 400 volts. The need for voltage conversion between 800- and 400-volt devices increases the cost and design complexity, and also adds conversion power losses. However, this solution requires less EV redesign and lower costs for the 400 V system, while still enabling faster charging.The third approach is a hybrid solution that involves a battery system capable of switching between 800 volts when charging and 400 volts when discharging. Other high-voltage devices remain at 400 volts. This simple and low-cost solution enables faster charging, though discharging at 400 volts means that a reduction in energy consumption will not be achieved.We will probably see all three approaches as EV manufacturers switch from 400 volts to 800 volts. As testing procedures develop and prices fall for 800-volt components, we can expect a full transition to the high voltage architecture. For heavy duty EVs that require high power, we may even see architectures beyond 800 volts.

[techteam]

They're using a Speedmaster lower unit running in an overdriven configuration, which is really interesting. I'll have a lot more details here soon.

It is interesting because that's exactly what they are doing in the UK.

[techteam]

Yes its a guy called Ted Walsh who raced for a long while and has had some time out. Just races locally now and converted an aluminium runabout to electric last year. Fancied trying something a bit faster. No manufacturer support just internet searching and an EBAY account.

[techteam]

Hi Gregg, I look forward to that article. Thanks.

Wonder who'll be highest bidder to get that US manufacturing license/profit sharing agreement partnership for that high density lightweight marine battery?

MB'S 2021 acquisition of YASA UK has made some very cool Axial stuff. Will CATL, BYD and LG be left in the dust? Will a US player start pumping them out? That would be very cool.

Gotta get a spool of AWG 2-5/0 DC wire to start my pre-rig

Yes that's the motor that currently holds the world record used along with an Formula E battery pack from the car racing series.

[PUSpeedboating]

Hey everyone,

My name is Andrew Robbins and I run the Princeton Electric Speedboating team. Thanks for the awesome shootout and great questions and comments about the boat and team. I'm happy to answer more questions about the boat and plans for the future.

To some of the above comments:
We are actually running a radial flux motor instead of an axial flux motor as was mentioned above. The main reason for this was to get the motor speed that we needed. Even with a 6% overdrive in the lower unit and some massive (for outboard hydroplanes) Dewald props we were still turning ~7000 rpm at the powerhead. Many of the axial flux motor such as the Yasa 400R (very popular axial flux motor) tap out around 4000 rpm wihtout field weakening and are limited to an absolute maximum of 8000 rpm. Where possible we try to stay into lower levels of field weakening.

Total boat weight was 975 lbs with the driver. Batteries made up ~330 lbs of that. The rest of the power train (motor, inverter, and cooling system) was another 100 lbs. The exact hull weight we aren't sure as it wasn't measured prior to the build but it's in the low to mid 300's.

Rather than a speedmaster lower unit we are running a Bass Racing lower unit, significantly smaller, with a 6% overdrive gear ratio. Super efficient lower unit but definitely not as strong as the larger speedmaster, a tradeoff we are willing to take for the kilo racing.

[Speed Jr.]

How about you stop adapting IC vehicles and components for Electric setups and start with the Electric components and design/build around it. With Electric power, so much boat and drive components is not necessary. Just look at the fastest RC boats and learn from them. The thought of needing a lower unit is comical with an Electric power system. Start thinking outside the box.

Jr.

[JLanier571]

Surface drives seem like they would be a better option.

[CUDA]

Simple and efficient.

[OnPad]

Hey everyone,

My name is Andrew Robbins and I run the Princeton Electric Speedboating team. Thanks for the awesome shootout and great questions and comments about the boat and team. I'm happy to answer more questions about the boat and plans for the future.

To some of the above comments:
We are actually running a radial flux motor instead of an axial flux motor as was mentioned above. The main reason for this was to get the motor speed that we needed. Even with a 6% overdrive in the lower unit and some massive (for outboard hydroplanes) Dewald props we were still turning ~7000 rpm at the powerhead. Many of the axial flux motor such as the Yasa 400R (very popular axial flux motor) tap out around 4000 rpm wihtout field weakening and are limited to an absolute maximum of 8000 rpm. Where possible we try to stay into lower levels of field weakening.

Total boat weight was 975 lbs with the driver. Batteries made up ~330 lbs of that. The rest of the power train (motor, inverter, and cooling system) was another 100 lbs. The exact hull weight we aren't sure as it wasn't measured prior to the build but it's in the low to mid 300's.

Rather than a speedmaster lower unit we are running a Bass Racing lower unit, significantly smaller, with a 6% overdrive gear ratio. Super efficient lower unit but definitely not as strong as the larger speedmaster, a tradeoff we are willing to take for the kilo racing.

Welcome Andrew. I too enjoy electric boats, but on a smaller scale. Know little about the motor you use, but find it interesting that your running that low of rpm, or kv in world of RC. My little boats are turning around 40k rpm.seems the faster I spin the motor, with a smaller prop the greater speed, and control I have. Also find it interesting that you chose a outboard, all my fastest boats are 3 point inboard hydros. Keep up the work, the potential for short bursts of speed exceeding IC engines should be obtainable

[powerabout]

No question there are electric motors that can do anything but batteries are not green and even then need to be 20-50 times better ( weight/power density) than they are today to compete with what we have always done with gasoline and diesel.
Do we see any press on a battery that is even twice as good as todays?

[OnPad]

Crickets............

[CUDA]

Don't worry Grasshopper, There are many new battery designs on the way. Toyota has been holding back because they know their new Solid state batteries as soo much better; the problem now is building many millions of them, which is going to take a few more years to get right.


In the article below there is much talk about efficiency, that many companies have to get a grasp on, Teslas is so far ahead in this game just watch...

https://youtu.be/L6WDq0V5oBg?si=-9JXbF7PB_EajoVt

[CUDA]

Solid state...
IS THE game changer

The price of oil will never go up again, just cheaper as we need less and less of it, and more and more countries are pumping their own, with the USA setting records of over 13 million barrels a day, more than we use.


https://youtu.be/h5g5LpjaDco

[hellbents-10]

Solid state batteries will not be a game changer sorry, the tech has been around for a fair amount of time.