Balsa core lamination

[tunnels]

I used 1 layer of the 1708 oz bi-ply over the foam core in my V-King. For the transom, I would add some to the hull skin to get about 1/4'' thickness, install transom and then cover with 2 layers. 2 more over that where the motor bolts go thru is helpful. Stringers and knees, 2 layers is plenty. Floor depends on what is being used for core. Usually 1 layer under, and 1 layer over with an additional 6'' tab pc on the floor edges all the way around is good. So 2 layers at floor seam...

XstreamVking you never answered the question !!0/45 ?? what kind of glass is that ????

But epoxy is so damn strong and super adhesive It wont be a super glue if you add stuff that should never be mixed with it !

[Aaronhl]

Good idea bro that is what I will do !!

Anyone know a place that sells the 1700 biax in yards? I dont need a full roll

[powerabout]

Should you ever mix anything to epoxy resin when you want to glue something together?
Or should you use a specialised epoxy glue like plexus type products?
Is it an issue of brittleness?

[Aaronhl]

XstreamVking you never answered the question !!0/45 ?? what kind of glass is that ????

But epoxy is so damn strong and super adhesive It wont be a super glue if you add stuff that should never be mixed with it !

OK So if I am not using West then what would you mix with an epoxy to thicken it???

[tunnels]

Should you ever mix anything to epoxy resin when you want to glue something together? yes
Or should you use a specialised epoxy glue like plexus type products?
Is it an issue of brittleness?

As boat builders every place I've worked in have always bought resin in bulk 20 liter containers complete with single lever hand pumps dispensing resin and hardener at the same time in the right measured proportions with each stroke !! Eliminates guess work completely . The various epoxy manufactures are also able to supply the additive's used to make glues or fillers or bedding and coving adhesives and the like in big bulk bags of the different products, the same as or similar to WEST SYSTEMS can supply !

In Korea we used a very slow curing epoxy , white coloured Glue for doing deck to hull joins ! Had no fastening's of any description any where to hold the deck on ! only the glue ! Has a 8 hour work time and Is semi flexible and stuck and would never let go ! Made by Adhesive Technologies in Auckland ,NZ! , the glue is just called HPR 25 !
The test strips I made the glue stuck so well tore the glass apart !, even a gel coated surface ripped the gel coat and layer of glass completely off one side !! even with a chisel HAMMERED in the glue join it still ripped glass APART !!

I have worked with a very similar construction adhesive here in China that was just as good for bonding fiberglass !!

[XstreamVking]

This stuff is Colloidal or fumed silica, cabosil etc. System Three 3105S16 White Silica Thickener

If you are concerned about using putty, you could always use matt that is compatable with epoxy to set your core and transom. Slightly heavier but will add more strength to your boat.
They sell it on ebay and other places. There are many places that sell glass by the yard. I would try and buy your glass, filler, and resin at the same place. Squeegees brushes, cleaners, and rollers etc.

[dwilfong]

Cabosill mixed 1 to 1 by volume with epoxy is not brittle.....................
Can slam some with a sledge hammer and it just laugh's at it.
West systems is over priced consumer product. It is not made for large layup. It is for the Joe walking in there store with a new boat.
DB 1700 is more than adequate for covering a core.
Look here for what you need. http://www.uscomposites.com/ There glass is top notch and lays down smooth as glass with epoxy.
I got some from a local glass shop and it was ****...........Layed down like crap and had hairs from the cross stitching sticking up after the lay up.
The DB170 is what you want.
get the epoxy here. https://fiberglassflorida.com/fiberg...oxy-resin.html best price on a 7.5 gal kit. Medium hardener has the best kick time to strength. It did not blush at all great to work with. Wetted out very quick.

[XstreamVking]

Very good advice dwilfong....I agree 100% Both glass suppliers are top notch.

[dwilfong]

Very good advice dwilfong....I agree 100% Both glass suppliers are top notch.

Hate to say it but the crap glass came from Fiberglass Florida.

[XstreamVking]

Chineese copy cat glass more than likely. Vector ply is the best I have found..

[dwilfong]

What ever it was it was bad. The strands where all different sizes and the gaps between where all over the place. Then the cross stitching was huge and stuck up like porcupines quills after it set up.
Only needed a yard to finish up the lay up of the mounts for all the rigging points.
That and I put one last layer on the inside of the transom for good measures. After a year of sitting it started to blister on that last lay up with the **** glass. should have just left well enough alone with it.
Now I have to spend the time to sand them all down before I coat the inside of the hull. Just a pain in the ass....
Cheep glass is gust that CHEEP..............Don't use cheep glass it is not worth the $$ you will save.

[MattGreen]

OK So if I am not using West then what would you mix with an epoxy to thicken it???

Ok, the advice you have received from XStream and Dwilfong is on the mark. I have a little more to add.

Colloidal silica (cab-o-sil) most definitely is a good thickener for epoxies, WEST and other brands. It is specifically referenced for this purpose by both WEST and System Three for example. I have used gallons and gallons of S-3, WEST, and Epiglass with this as a filler for structural bonding repairs and wood-epoxy new construction. A wood-epoxy tunnel hull I built 20 years ago used cab-o-sil thickened epoxy for all joints (including structural plywood scarf joints) and it held up perfectly despite rough-water abuse. It is important to use a thickened epoxy for the transom bonding since in a repair situation it will inevitably be an imperfect fit against the original transom fiberglass (despite best efforts at grinding, fitting, clamping, bolts/screws, etc). As XStream pointed out, epoxy is a far, far better structural adhesive than anything polyester and better than the phenol-resorcinol used in the plywood you are buying. If you don't feel like mixing fillers, WEST 610 injection tubes for caulking guns work great (fast, no mess) but take a deep breath before you see the retail price. Overall WEST products are fine (they have great user guides and tech support) but the prices reflect that. There's lots of good epoxies out there now, that was not the case decades ago.

The advice on using 1700 double bias with epoxy is also good. Just choose your epoxy carefully. Regular general-purpose epoxies (like basic WEST for example) are pretty thick (although mixed viscosity varies somewhat depending upon which hardener you use), and does not wet out fabrics that heavy very well. I would not try it with 24 oz double-bias. One layer of 1700 DB is OK, multiple will be a pain in the ass. A thinner laminating epoxy will be a lot more user friendly and less chance of messing up the weave and/or stitching as mentioned.

Good luck, you won't miss the styrene stink lol.

Matt

[tunnels]

Chineese copy cat glass more than likely. Vector ply is the best I have found..

Who supplies vector ply ?? CHINA !
What your implying it possible came from INDIA !
All and any glass I've seen here in china in the last 8 years is the best I have ever seen ! Its possible to get glass specially made in any width you want !!so for the big boats we got it cut to the right length and 2.350 mts wide , And the sales guy was there when it arrived on the truck to check!! and later as we started using it he was there also to check Quality, the services was better than anywhere I have ever been !

[adadk]

0/45 ?? what kind of glass is that ???? never heard of that one before!!

Biaxial fiberglass is +/-45 degrees. For someone who claims to have 30+ years of working with boats, how is it you don't know this?

[tunnels]

Biaxial fiberglass is +/-45 degrees. For someone who claims to have 30+ years of working with boats, how is it you don't know this?

Sorry I hate to tell you but " YOU GOT IT WRONG " Not me !! its taken all this time for some one to question this !I saw it as soon as it was posted , Im amazed to how unobservant people are AND how little they really know and understand !!
0/45 if it ever existed must be a very special fabric !! yes it is just
2 layers !! but the directions of the glass does not make any sense at all!!
ok Biaxle+/-45 Is plus 45 degrees , minus 45degrees and is call double bias AND it could also have a 275 gram chopped strand matt on the back side !! which you call 1708 in US language !! No one else any where on the planet I've been uses such a terminologies as it makes no sense !
When you are writing the glass layers for an individual fabric or a whole laminate for a boat hull bottom its written like so, (REMEMBER its always started at the gel coat !!) csm 450 , csm 450 , 0/90 , 3 x 450 csm , 45/45 Or the better one 45/45/90 Its such a pity no one seems to keep this triaxle in the US ! Its a really good glass to use !! most common triaxle is 45/45/0 , BUT when used in combination to 45/45/90 and a core in between is a really easy and quick lay up and a very strong layup And quite stiff !! what and why would make it stiff ??
There is something I have left out on purpose in nearly all this , do you know what it is ???

Do you understand the 0/45+/45-/90 angles are and how they relate to a hull ?? http://vectorply.com/database-search/ have a read of all that's here and you will get the picture better and read about woven glass as well ! With all the glasses they have listed do you know where and how most of them could be used ??
If you do find a 0/45 anywhere tell me how and where you would use it and what are its attributes !! AFTER thinking about it all afternoon yes there is a way to use that particular glass but would only be a part of an actual lay up and would have to be flipped over for the other side ! Now that's going too cause melt down of brain cells !! flip it over ?? what the hell is he talking about ?? !
Have a nice day