Wet Foam - New Hull? Tell Me How to Handle It

[Gorilla0178]

AHHHHHH!!!!! well this is what happens. Ok so my input. Yes that is how they build them, not surprised. So I would cut the glass around the "black" drain hose, dig any foam that's wet out as much as poss. Being that its new and closed cell foam soaks up water slowly, it prob hasn't traveled too far from there if at all. I would fill the void back up with foam, but would use a polyester based "putty" to bed around the pipe so there was minimal foam touching the drain hose at the opening. I would glass over the whole thing, after it was cured I would reopen the drain hole back up. The fiberglass will seal the pipe and with the putty bedding the opening of the pipe the foam shouldn't be exposed to the water at all. I would do the same with the pvc pipes, cut them flush, glass over them and then reopen the holes back up. Then the foam should be sealed from the water.

[Li'l Toy]

I am struggling with your two photos. As I understand, the small area just "above and to the left" of the pump as the photo is oriented is a "catch basin" where the top fiberglass has been cut, the hose comes in on the bottom layer, and the raw edge of the foam is exposed on three sides of this basin that, for whatever reason, either fills with water coming in from the black hose, or carries water out through the black hose.

So you have raw foam lining a well that fills with water regularly! I understand the logic of what the plant manager says, exposing closed cell foam is no risk, I just have no experience to know if it is true. Maybe we are all gun-shy after dealing with wet balsa core, but I sure don't like the idea of the core area of any part of a boat having its core exposed, much less in an area designed to hold water. I do think that you should follow Gorilla's idea, either having the dealer do it if Key West will agree as a customer service to make their customer happy (as the manager implies) or have someone good do the work to live more comfortably. It cannot be that big of a job, though certainly complicated if the access is as limited as I think you said.

[Stoker1]

A few more pictures to show the surrounding area.

The boat has a "Rub Rail to Rub Rail" one year warranty *edit*, which I just read and its as thin as the sheet of paper its written on*. Planning for the worst, how could they deny fixing this? Is this not a problem that will not go away unless addressed?

The service manager did call me an hour ago. I asked if he had seen the pictures that I sent the GM, to which he had not. While explaining it over the phone, I asked if he would be satisfied with a 3 month old boat that had exposed foam ground down and water is able to seep in between the outer hull and inner shell? He couldn't answer.....

He did say that he and the GM will look over the pictures and discuss tomorrow. Most likely they will have to involve "Tom" the plant manager who absolutely states this is not a warranty issue. I'm forwarding these pics to him now.

I'm preparing for the worst. Please continue to provide your valued feedback.
Jr.

[Stoker1]

Being totally upfront - as to not get caught not sharing all the info (and seeing just one side of the story).

"Tom" emailed me a few pictures today from the build process. I'm still not able to orientate myself to them, but perhaps it will be enough for you put my mind at rest.

[Baja170]

That is some SERIOUSLY sloppy work. They did not even clean up all the fuzz from their obviously either HOT or DULL saw blade they cut the PVC with and there is no sealer on the plug hole or the PVC. When I go back to the lake I'll show you how it was done in 1992 and 1984 and it is sure sealed unlike that "New" boat. I am shocked.

I need to show this to my brother who just blew up my Mom's 1984 Ski Nautique 2001 PCM Engine for the second time and wants to get a new boat. I already told him the thing was mint and to just repower with a new engine that is EFI and will cut ignition before anyone can blow it up again.

[Gorilla0178]

That foam is a little different than the kind you get at the fiberglass supply store. I would say that the foam they used is a little better and consistent, its sprayed in. As everyone here knows that if its left wet itll absorb water after a while. Your boat is new, so there isn't much if any wet foam. Dry the bilge, pull off any loose foam, dig out the seam/crack where the foam is coming out, give the cleaned area a little sanding, the deeper the crack the better. Fill the crack/seam with 5200 and put a nice bead over it. Cut the pvc pipes flush and dig around them and fill them the same way, The upper pipes wont ever get wet unless the bilge is full, right? the lower hose needs to be sealed, either with glass then opened up again, or with sealant, the 5200 will last forever and will cure even if the spot is moist. Keep the bilge area clean and as dry as poss and you shouldn't have a prob.
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[Gorilla0178]

[QUOTE=Baja170;2873324]That is some SERIOUSLY sloppy work. They did not even clean up all the fuzz from their obviously either HOT or DULL saw blade they cut the PVC with and there is no sealer on the plug hole or the PVC. When I go back to the lake I'll show you how it was done in 1992 and 1984 and it is sure sealed unlike that "New" boat. I am shocked.

As a matter of fact, just from the pictures ive seen, and never stepping foot on a key west brand or this boat, the work isn't that bad. Sure, im sure there are things here and there that could have been done different, but for a production boat its not that bad. Ive seen WAYYYYY worse. They don't expect anyone to ever see those areas so they don't spent time cleaning it up. And yes, the pipes sticking out should be sealed some how, if they are going to be exposed to water, water gets everywhere eventually.

[Scream And Fly]

I'm sorry to see what you've discovered. What Noli has said is exactly what I spotted right away. I do not know much about Key West boats so I would not venture any comments on their construction methods. However I have been thoroughly educated in boat construction over the years, most especially thanks to Kevin at Progression Boats.

Based on the photos you posted, I am most concerned about unsealed openings, with foam clearly visible. If it were my boat, I would share in your feelings of great concern. I would also have an independent and very well trusted fiberglass repair shop investigate the issue and provide a full report. That might cost a bit of money, but it will better arm you for pressing these important matters with the dealer, and ultimately, the boat company.

On a side note, are they using a chopper gun to lay fiberglass? Because it sure looks like it based on those photos Tom sent you.

If I can do anything, let me know anytime.

Greg

[300x Stoker]

I've seen work like that before. In a Hot Tub. Only one side is supposed to get wet. LOL!!

[Stoker1]

Greg - thanks for the message. Depending on how the conversation goes tomorrow with the GM, I'll keep that piece of advice in my pocket for later.

A quote from the warranty book:

"Manufacturer also warrants to buyer to repair (or replace at its sole discretion) non-structural defects in material and workmanship under normal operating conditions, subject to the exclusions set forth below, for a period of one (1) year."

Then it goes on to list half a dozen things that are not covered such as blistering, oxidation, overpowered etc.

Got to let things cool off since the wife is getting a tad upset. We went with a new rig because we were tired of worrying about things and now we're slightly on edge.

[XstreamVking]

These openings would cause problems several years down the road. With only a one yr warr, I would go ahead and get the places in the bilge sealed. Really nothing to lose warr wise. The rest of the openings, if the water level stays low in the bilge might not be a problem.

[Baja170]

If you plan to keep the boat for a while or even if you plan to sell it in a few years, just get it all fixed right. Then no worries and have fun.

So is that what a Chopper Gun layup looks like S&F with all the dry non rolled out fibers sticking up to soak up water? I've never had or seen one before. Definitely not what I would ever own.

[flabum1017]

The thing I noticed on your boat is it appears the hole for the black drain hose is a bit lower than the bottom of the bilge and creating a dish for the water to set in. I don't know if that is a foam core hull, but it appears the drilled that hole from the other side of the bulkhead at a slight angle and ended up lower and digging into the bottom of the hull a little and into the foam core if one is there. That puddling of water will saturate the core eventually. Hopefully, it hasn't soaked in too far yet. We have worked on some Boston Whalers with similar problems and they do gain weight over the years. That opening was drilled then a pvc pipe shoved through. to finish the job, they should have sealed the pipe in with fiberglass. It's not so much a problem for the pipes that are above the normal water levels that would occur in the bilge, but that one where water is there constantly is a huge concern, especially if that is a foam core we see.

What "Tom" was trying to convey is they use foam to seal all the pvc pipes to keep water out of the stringers and such and they see no need to seal the foam from water. Just because it's their opinion that the foam will be ok, in the real world, it is not the case. You look at a 49 Grand Banks for instance, you will see all those pipes glassed in and there is no way for water to get into the stringers and bulkheads. Although Grand Banks is a luxury yacht, it does show the correct way of doing things. I hate to say it, but these companies like Key West, Palm Beach, even Mako and Seacraft just don't want to spend the little extra time and money to do it properly. They figure it will last long enough for you to use the boat and sell it. The next owner will likely end up with the problem and think there's no warranty........

[flabum1017]

These openings would cause problems several years down the road. With only a one yr warr, I would go ahead and get the places in the bilge sealed. Really nothing to lose warr wise. The rest of the openings, if the water level stays low in the bilge might not be a problem.

The only concern is if for some reason the bottom of the boat de-laminates, Key West might deny the warranty if someone else was in there grinding and glassing. Best to have a pro look at it and if he says it's serious enough, get it in writing and see if the State has a lemon law or consumer protection agency that can put a little muscle to get the factory to authorize and pay for the repair.

[flabum1017]

Oh, and another note: If the hull is foam cored, that core foam is different from the flotation foam and is not a closed cell foam. It will saturate over time. The closed cell foam they use is used for flotation and sealing holes through bulkheads and stringers and such.