300xs vs 300x vs 400R vs Caldwell Billet 2.5

[scawd the dog]

I have ran / tested 3 of the 4 on the Same Hull..... #1 choice 300X I have Ran and tested 300X's since 2001 and had repaired nothing comes close . The 300xs would be a distant 2nd except at Cruise speed fuel economy is great . The 400R was a HUGE disappointment , Full of Media HYPE and BS . If My boat performance was dramatically decreased with one , and a Pair on the Doug Wright Hulls and the X cat series "Race Boats" have not seen Dramatic performance Improvements , over the 280's and 300XS's Whats the point of having?

I have NO experience with the Caldwell product so I have no data.

[Risco]

Glen really depends on what you want to do with a 21 skater. To decide what engine but as everyone already knows 300xs is comprise between speed and mpg. 300x if you want more speed dont care about mpg. And for even more speed twin billet 2.5s would be badest 21 ever made. I wouldnt put a 400r on a 21 based on what happen to brents boat and my personal experience with a 21.

[CptAJ]

Since maintenance and repairs are a factor here, I want to say 300X all the way. No compressor takes the cake for me.

The 2.5 might be in the running but I don't trust that it will be as repairable simply by virtue of not being a standard item. Too early to tell on that one though. If you want to take fuel economy into consideration then the savings of the 300XS might offset its higher maintenance cost.

[Jamescole]

As always the resistance is real.. in any Power sports industry when 4 stroke is brought to high performance.

anyone remember the Yamaha YZ400F ? The YZ400F unexpectedly took the motocross world by storm. The initial reaction of die-hard motocross fans and riders (before they had a chance to ride the bike) was predictable. My reaction was “That’s interesting, but it will never be as good as a two-stroke on a motocross track.” everyone and there 2 Stroke love was wrong. now you cant find a 2 stroke on the race course.

once they went to the YZ426F i would call it the 2ND generation Race Bike all Championships from then on was a 4 stroke.

how i see it. the 400 ROS is the 426 ... "2ND generation" of the 400 designed to replace the two strokes.

Mercury will make a smaller performance 4 stroke outboard for F1 its just a matter of time. just like yamaha made the 250F to compete in the 125 class.

so what would my choice be ? 400R ! why ? because its the future and its supposed to be reliable 400 hp turn key... computer flash.. who knows how much HP you will get 500? 600?

Start hoarding 2 stroke parts !

[Davidlake]

As always the resistance is real.. in any Power sports industry when 4 stroke is brought to high performance.

anyone remember the Yamaha YZ400F ? The YZ400F unexpectedly took the motocross world by storm. The initial reaction of die-hard motocross fans and riders (before they had a chance to ride the bike) was predictable. My reaction was “That’s interesting, but it will never be as good as a two-stroke on a motocross track.” everyone and there 2 Stroke love was wrong. now you cant find a 2 stroke on the race course.

once they went to the YZ426F i would call it the 2ND generation Race Bike all Championships from then on was a 4 stroke.

how i see it. the 400 ROS is the 426 ... "2ND generation" of the 400 designed to replace the two strokes.

Mercury will make a smaller performance 4 stroke outboard for F1 its just a matter of time. just like yamaha made the 250F to compete in the 125 class.

so what would my choice be ? 400R ! why ? because its the future and its supposed to be reliable 400 hp turn key... computer flash.. who knows how much HP you will get 500? 600?

Start hoarding 2 stroke parts !

I have experienced the transition from 2 stroke MX bikes to 4 strokes first hand (well, both hands). What you say is correct about the bikes... But, I feel that the change was corporate $$ driven. In all-out race conditions, the 4 strokes get to the flag first. Refreshing a 2 stroke bike costs maybe $200. A 4 stroke more like $1000! That will be the outcome of the motorboat high-output 4 strokes. For recreational use, I much prefer the 2 stroke MX'er. Same for motor boats!

[LongShot]

One thing about it. No matter which way you go it's going to cost you a pile of green paper..but is there anything that is fun that doesn't?? My philosophical moment for the day.

[Jamescole]

I have experienced the transition from 2 stroke MX bikes to 4 strokes first hand (well, both hands). What you say is correct about the bikes... But, I feel that the change was corporate $$ driven. In all-out race conditions, the 4 strokes get to the flag first. Refreshing a 2 stroke bike costs maybe $200. A 4 stroke more like $1000! That will be the outcome of the motorboat high-output 4 strokes. For recreational use, I much prefer the 2 stroke MX'er. Same for motor boats!

oh price to maintain.. agreed. but we put no price on this thread...

i currently have pretty much the oldest 2 strokes ever because of cost. it will be YEARS before i buy a 4 stroke unless its a yamaha SHO... there affordable right now.

[CptAJ]

oh price to maintain.. agreed. but we put no price on this thread...

i currently have pretty much the oldest 2 strokes ever because of cost. it will be YEARS before i buy a 4 stroke unless its a yamaha SHO... there affordable right now.

Ah but we did! Price to buy is no issue, but price to maintain is!

That's why I'm going with the 300X.

Now, a naturally aspirated fourstroke would also be very decent under these considerations, but that is not what the 400 is.

Like you said, four strokes are inevitable. I for one have my hopes set for a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder over the 225hp mark at least, light and robust.

[mikeylarge]

If you want to be fast and reliable build a 15" 300x just stay up on your maintnence. If you want to still run over 100 and not worry about anything for 2 years and enjoy burning no fuel slap a new 20" warranteed xs on it. If you want something cool that screams and you like to tune it in put a 2.5 on it. If you want to destroy the handling and go broke buy a 400r ��

[AZMIDLYF]

This is definitely a hull related decision. Smaller hulls, give me lighter and acceleration. 24 and up, give me the torque and grunt to run the number with a boat full of what's needed for my day on the water.

3600ccx..(insert initials)xtreme

[Brad Zastrow]

I see too many of these threads were if some is good, more is better. Heavy engines do not belong on small light boats. The balance is all wrong. First I am not a fan of the 21 Skater as they are a little dangerous. Tunnel is too deep and too narrow. Twin 2.5's on a 21 makes for a missile in a straight line after it settles down porpoising. The 3.0L Mercs are great engines but are sluggish compared to 2.5's. Weight, low rpm and tall gear ratios. However they last much longer before rebuilds than 2.5's. 100 hours vs 400+ hours. On bigger boats 24'+ the 300x and 300xs are the only way to go. Cruise at high speed for hours at low rpm. If you want a Skater get a 24 or 28. Far superior boat and either will handle the bigger engines.

[aggiestckl]

I see too many of these threads were if some is good, more is better. Heavy engines do not belong on small light boats. The balance is all wrong. First I am not a fan of the 21 Skater as they are a little dangerous. Tunnel is too deep and too narrow. Twin 2.5's on a 21 makes for a missile in a straight line after it settles down porpoising. The 3.0L Mercs are great engines but are sluggish compared to 2.5's. Weight, low rpm and tall gear ratios. However they last much longer before rebuilds than 2.5's. 100 hours vs 400+ hours. On bigger boats 24'+ the 300x and 300xs are the only way to go. Cruise at high speed for hours at low rpm. If you want a Skater get a 24 or 28. Far superior boat and either will handle the bigger engines.

Thinking of Argo or twister

[Brad Zastrow]

so what would my choice be ? 400R ! why ? because its the future and its supposed to be reliable 400 hp turn key... computer flash.. who knows how much HP you will get 500? 600?

The 400R is only 2.6 liter (158 cubic inch). About half the size of a 5.0 Mustang yet making more power. It currently is running over 20+- pounds of boost! I do not think a re-flash will give more power on pump gas. I am surprised a consumer engine with a warranty is made with that much boost.

[Jamescole]

The 400R is only 2.6 liter (158 cubic inch). About half the size of a 5.0 Mustang yet making more power. It currently is running over 20+- pounds of boost! I do not think a re-flash will give more power on pump gas. I am surprised a consumer engine with a warranty is made with that much boost.

lol 20 pounds is agressive .. but very cool. yeah good point... hard to see them ramping that boost up much more

[AZMIDLYF]

Have not heard the actual boost levels these were running. Any idea on torque numbers?