Nitrous on 2.5 Drag

[Stoker boy]

Do they still exist? I read on here a while back that Chuck Goodman had passed away. I can’t seem to find anything that indicates that the company still exists?

Yes, Chuck passed away. Chuck‘s wife sold the business Hydrodynamics. Nobody wanted to purchase NITROX. George, Chuck’s nephew was supposed to take over the whole business but that didn’t work out. I speak to George occasionally, but he has no interest in starting up the NITROX business.

[Instigator]

Nitrous is gay!

To the theory of losing octane to oil content in fuel, I agree.
In theory.

It was discussed on here, yrs ago, by guys way smarter than me and they said it was nothing.

Chuck Goodman of Nitrox fame was the man.

[Stoker boy]

Nitrous is gay!

To the theory of losing octane to oil content in fuel, I agree.
In theory.

It was discussed on here, yrs ago, by guys way smarter than me and they said it was nothing.

Chuck Goodman of Nitrox fame was the man.

I agree, Chuck was great, he was also a great friend.

[powerabout]

The confusing part is more oil makes more power and oil doesnt have an octane rating but I would agree its less than fuel.
Detonation
or
Ring seal

which one for xmas

PS does more oil make more power as its lowered the octane rating to just above detonation which is peak power????
or
increase ring reed and crank sealing
Wheres NOSUB when you need him

[CI STV]

The confusing part is more oil makes more power and oil doesnt have an octane rating but I would agree its less than fuel.
Detonation
or
Ring seal

which one for xmas

PS does more oil make more power as its lowered the octane rating to just above detonation which is peak power????
or
increase ring reed and crank sealing
Wheres NOSUB when you need him

I’ve always wondered about how more oil can make more power. I suppose that if it increases ring seal (especially with a single ring drag motor like mine) that will make more power. Or perhaps if the fuel octane is too high, the oil’s effective lowering of octane could help make a few horsepower? Can’t see how else it could make more power. And I’m sure it’s not going to be a significant amount of power.

But some guys will swear that running 40:1 makes more power than 32:1. Go figure.

For me, I want to use as much oil as is needed to protect the engine from wear. That’s what it’s for, no?

I have no doubt I’ve been using more oil than I need, because I’ve been running the Mercury Racing red synthetic blend at 32:1, and every time I’ve had the heads off, the cylinders are soaked with oil. Even the tuner is soaked in oil. The amazing thing is that there is no carbon at all in my motor, although I realize that probably because it hasn’t had much running at idle and I’ve only used Sunoco 112 or VP C12 in it, which burns much cleaner than pump gas.
Here’s what it looked like when I pulled the heads to change out the chambers the other day:

Not sure why it looks “cloudy” around the edges of the piston?

I got my hands on some Redline 2-stroke racing oil, which is what Brendan at PPE says is the best oil for 10,000+ RPM in a race motor. Curiously, he recommends running that at 25:1. I’m pretty sure he knows what he’s talking about, so that’s what I’m going to use.

[CI STV]

Just to update the thread, yesterday I reconfigured the fuel delivery to the solenoid by adding a small 6AN 40 micron filter between the regulator and the solenoid. BTW: I’m using a 6AN supply right up to the solenoid, which is serious overkill, just to make sure to add as much head volume in the fuel supply right in front of the solenoid, to prevent any fuel pressure drop at the solenoid when the fuel solenoid opens.

I’ve also removed the vacuum hose from the manifold to the Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator, to prevent high vacuum from pulling the fuel pressure down at idle or when I ease off the throttle at the end of a run, which, as I said before, I can see fuel pressure drop on my datalogs at the end if every run. I don’t want that with nitrous. I’ve also installed an Aeromotive 1/16” NPT “breather” fitting in the regulator, to make sure that the back side of the regulator diaphragm sees atmospheric pressure at all times.

The reason for this is that I want fully static fuel pressure throughout a run. One less variable to worry about.

I also pulled the NX Maximizer EZ progressive controller off my Vette and removed the relay for the nitrous system on the boat and plugged this into the harness (that’s how it installs, literally in two minutes).
This is what I’m talking about. One of the best bang for the buck accessories ever made for a nitrous system:
https://www.nitrousexpress.com/maxim...ller-16006.asp

Tested it by setting the window switch to “WOT only” and floored the pedal and you can hear it progressively pulse the solenoids for the preset amount of time. This will significantly soften the “hit” you typically get when the nitrous kicks in at lower RPM. I can literally dial in my 60’ on my Vette with this little $150 device.

The idea behind this mod is to save my gearcase.

I’ll take some pictures today and post them up.

[25two.stroke]

Cloudy is the fuel+oil deposits left behind when the charge first starts entering the chamber and meets the hot ass piston. It briefly cooks on there till the main charge comes in and cools down the whole chamber...You just haven't run enough hours to build carbon. Even a motor strictly drag raced will build carbon across the piston, but it takes longer. Basically you are in a constant "rich" run state (during constant acceleration under load, then deceleration with no load) which reduces carbon build up.

[Instigator]

Trying to see, and not reading, # of hrs on your motor?

How long and what RPM?

I will say that the clouds dictate where the intake/transfer ports are.

When I “tune” that what I’m watching.

Rich, you get a clean piston at the port.

Lean, it’s the same color as the main part of the crown.

That is gas only.

I know nothing about what a piston should look like for nitrous ��

I remember telling Jon Wright (RIP) one time at a Rumble that his motor was 4 stroking every time he lifted.
He laughed me and said, “that’s the nitrous Gary”!

I’ve always wondered about how more oil can make more power. I suppose that if it increases ring seal (especially with a single ring drag motor like mine) that will make more power. Or perhaps if the fuel octane is too high, the oil’s effective lowering of octane could help make a few horsepower? Can’t see how else it could make more power. And I’m sure it’s not going to be a significant amount of power.

But some guys will swear that running 40:1 makes more power than 32:1. Go figure.

For me, I want to use as much oil as is needed to protect the engine from wear. That’s what it’s for, no?

I have no doubt I’ve been using more oil than I need, because I’ve been running the Mercury Racing red synthetic blend at 32:1, and every time I’ve had the heads off, the cylinders are soaked with oil. Even the tuner is soaked in oil. The amazing thing is that there is no carbon at all in my motor, although I realize that probably because it hasn’t had much running at idle and I’ve only used Sunoco 112 or VP C12 in it, which burns much cleaner than pump gas.
Here’s what it looked like when I pulled the heads to change out the chambers the other day:

Not sure why it looks “cloudy” around the edges of the piston?

I got my hands on some Redline 2-stroke racing oil, which is what Brendan at PPE says is the best oil for 10,000+ RPM in a race motor. Curiously, he recommends running that at 25:1. I’m pretty sure he knows what he’s talking about, so that’s what I’m going to use.

[CI STV]

Trying to see, and not reading, # of hrs on your motor?

How long and what RPM?

I will say that the clouds dictate where the intake/transfer ports are.

When I “tune” that what I’m watching.

Rich, you get a clean piston at the port.

Lean, it’s the same color as the main part of the crown.

That is gas only.

I know nothing about what a piston should look like for nitrous ��

I remember telling Jon Wright (RIP) one time at a Rumble that his motor was 4 stroking every time he lifted.
He laughed me and said, “that’s the nitrous Gary”!

My motor doesn’t have many hours on it. It’s on a race boat, so I only launch it to test it or to race. Probably 30 runs on it, mostly to around 800’ maybe a couple to ~1,000. Most of them to right around 10,000, until I found out that’s where the limiter was set. Changed that with the Brucato software and now it runs over 10,000, to around 10,300-10,400.

I have not yet run it on nitrous. Trying to figure out everything as best I can before I test it.
Need to clean the injectors next, since the EGTs are down by 70-80 degrees on one bank last time I ran it, and the last time that happened a while ago, I cleaned the injectors and the EGTs evened out decently again, although the flow rates on all the Merc hose-feed injectors are all over the place, from what I’ve seen and read. Especially compared to the ID1050X’s I have in my Vette, which are very damn close. I wish someone would do a custom fuel rail and ECU so we can run some better injectors…

[108]

My motor doesn’t have many hours on it. It’s on a race boat, so I only launch it to test it or to race. Probably 30 runs on it, mostly to around 800’ maybe a couple to ~1,000. Most of them to right around 10,000, until I found out that’s where the limiter was set. Changed that with the Brucato software and now it runs over 10,000, to around 10,300-10,400.

I have not yet run it on nitrous. Trying to figure out everything as best I can before I test it.
Need to clean the injectors next, since the EGTs are down by 70-80 degrees on one bank last time I ran it, and the last time that happened a while ago, I cleaned the injectors and the EGTs evened out decently again, although the flow rates on all the Merc hose-feed injectors are all over the place, from what I’ve seen and read. Especially compared to the ID1050X’s I have in my Vette, which are very damn close. I wish someone would do a custom fuel rail and ECU so we can run some better injectors…

I've been meaning to call fuel tech and see what they can have to offer.

[Instigator]

Interesting.

Those are clean piston tops!

My motor doesn’t have many hours on it. It’s on a race boat, so I only launch it to test it or to race. Probably 30 runs on it, mostly to around 800’ maybe a couple to ~1,000. Most of them to right around 10,000, until I found out that’s where the limiter was set. Changed that with the Brucato software and now it runs over 10,000, to around 10,300-10,400.

I have not yet run it on nitrous. Trying to figure out everything as best I can before I test it.
Need to clean the injectors next, since the EGTs are down by 70-80 degrees on one bank last time I ran it, and the last time that happened a while ago, I cleaned the injectors and the EGTs evened out decently again, although the flow rates on all the Merc hose-feed injectors are all over the place, from what I’ve seen and read. Especially compared to the ID1050X’s I have in my Vette, which are very damn close. I wish someone would do a custom fuel rail and ECU so we can run some better injectors…

[CI STV]

Interesting.

Those are clean piston tops!

Yep, I figure that’s due to race gas, plenty of oil and low hours.
And based on what I’ve seen, nitrous will keep them clean.
Every motor I’ve pulled down after running nitrous had clean pistons. Some might’ve been fubared, but the good ones were clean…

[Instigator]

Agreed on the fuel.

Yep, I figure that’s due to race gas, plenty of oil and low hours.
And based on what I’ve seen, nitrous will keep them clean.
Every motor I’ve pulled down after running nitrous had clean pistons. Some might’ve been fubared, but the good ones were clean…

[RBT]

My motor doesn’t have many hours on it. It’s on a race boat, so I only launch it to test it or to race. Probably 30 runs on it, mostly to around 800’ maybe a couple to ~1,000. Most of them to right around 10,000, until I found out that’s where the limiter was set. Changed that with the Brucato software and now it runs over 10,000, to around 10,300-10,400.

I have not yet run it on nitrous. Trying to figure out everything as best I can before I test it.
Need to clean the injectors next, since the EGTs are down by 70-80 degrees on one bank last time I ran it, and the last time that happened a while ago, I cleaned the injectors and the EGTs evened out decently again, although the flow rates on all the Merc hose-feed injectors are all over the place, from what I’ve seen and read. Especially compared to the ID1050X’s I have in my Vette, which are very damn close. I wish someone would do a custom fuel rail and ECU so we can run some better injectors…

Brendan Power, rail and injectors and his ECU is capable. A fair bit better than the brucato.
Also dyno proven, more oil in a 2.5 is better and you don’t loose power till about 18:1

[CI STV]

Brendan Power, rail and injectors and his ECU is capable. A fair bit better than the brucato.
Also dyno proven, more oil in a 2.5 is better and you don’t loose power till about 18:1

Thanks. I’ve actually asked Brendan if he’s considered modifying his rail and ECU to run injectors like the ID1050X or 1300X.
I believe his ECU is more sophisticated than the Brucato. His fuel table certainly looks to be more than a copy of the mercury tune, which is what Brucato uses. Not to take anything away from the Brucato, which has certainly worked flawlessly on my motor.
Here’s a comparison of the tune I’ve been using in my Brucato vs a screen grab from a video of a 280 slider tune that Brendan has posted on his website.

A13 tune that came in my ACU, with a few tweaks (rev limiter increased to 11500 and offsets for group 2 and 3 injectors changed slightly):

Note the “hole” in the 8000 and 8250 columns at high vacuum. I’ve now bumped all of those cells up to 100 in the 8000 and 105 in the 8250 range. Reason being, I don’t want the motor going lean at the end of the run, as it transitions down through that rpm range, when the slider closes and there’s high vacuum in the manifold, which could cause the ECU to reference theses cells. Not sure if that’s the case, but I can’t see how changing those cells can hurt WOT performance, which is really what I care about. Or am I wrong about that?

screen grab of PPE ECU tune:

Look, no “hole” at 8000 to 8250 at high vacuum. Go figure. Interesting to note the massive (10%) offset on group 3 injectors between 6000 and 7000 rpm too. And I notice that the vacuum scale starts out with 980 as atmospheric, but the graduation from there is much more granular. You can bet that he has a reason for all of that. He’s a pretty damn smart guy and knows these motors as good as anyone.