Cougar 21' + Vmax SHO question

[jimmybrie]

Hi everyone,

It's been a while since I posted something here, I've done some research and found only one thread talking about that kind of setup and nothing about the questions I have. So I thought I might ask. Maybe I should've posted in the rigging section but I thought maybe more views here and it's still boat discussion. I'm seeking members that have experience with that setup or similar and I've seen there might be a couple...So here we go...

I recencently repowered my 21' Cougar from a 260 to a Vmax SHO 200 (332). There's some pros and cons to that move and I kind of miss my 260 for some reasons but anyways at that point it's too late to revert the process. And I do like the new motor.

1- The new motor is almost 200 lbs heavier than my previous motor so I think that's the reason I get porpoising between plane ~20 mph and 30-32 mph which wasn't there before... I plan on maybe moving the motor forward to try to compensate. (actually running 12" setback bracket + Bob's 6" jackplate for a total of 18")

Would that be a good idea? I guess it will also help flotation of the rear of the hull? What kind of bracket could I use? (I think Bob's don't make negative angle setback brackets?)

What is a reasonable minimum setback to get clear water and minimize slip ? (Was thinking of moving 6" forward and get 12" setback).

Oh yes I forgot, I'm stock except for the tune, running a Bravo 1 FS 32 @ 6200 rpm and 97- 98 mph is the best I could get right now with some weight in the boat (2 pers, 2/3 fuel, and ~100lbs anchor, stuff etc) Problem is I can't jack higher than 1'' 1-1/2'' below pad because I haven't done the cone and LWP yet. So the only way I can loosen that prop is to trim and I feel the angle of the boat is more pronounced now because of the weight so I don't feel confortable going farther for now. With the other setup I would run the motor almost square and jack up to 1 1-1/2 above pad instead...

That leads me to my 2nd question, will shorther setback improve the angle at high speed ? I know the Bravo is more a bow lifting prop than the Cleaver (Merc high perf humpback) stern lifting prop I use to run. Might play a role in that for sure.

Anyways I plan on doing the cone this winter if I can find some time to do it and probably fatshaft at the same time because it seems the stock 1" shaft doesn't like surfacing. (I ran my 1" CLE with no problem but that's the info I got for the Yammies). And surfacing a Bravo might not be a good idea so that will probably lead me to another thread on possible mid venting/relief to run other props (possibly over the hub like I use to) and let that V6 sing a little.

I know it's a lot of mixed infos and questions but I just didn't wanted to start multiple threads so let me know if it would be better another way.

Thanks in advance for your help and knowledge.

[billy bilt]

You're actually doing pretty good without a low water pickup nosecone. that setup would normallyblow out in the mid eighties
neutral trim is your friend and getting that chopper to surface.
just did a 1991 cougar rebuild with 300R same exact setback and jackplate. runs 108-110 with 30P 5 blade Hill chopper. have a hill Barrel 30p that has more sternlift than I need and it will only run 104

Hi everyone,

It's been a while since I posted something here, I've done some research and found only one thread talking about that kind of setup and nothing about the questions I have. So I thought I might ask. Maybe I should've posted in the rigging section but I thought maybe more views here and it's still boat discussion. I'm seeking members that have experience with that setup or similar and I've seen there might be a couple...So here we go...

I recencently repowered my 21' Cougar from a 260 to a Vmax SHO 200 (332). There's some pros and cons to that move and I kind of miss my 260 for some reasons but anyways at that point it's too late to revert the process. And I do like the new motor.

1- The new motor is almost 200 lbs heavier than my previous motor so I think that's the reason I get porpoising between plane ~20 mph and 30-32 mph which wasn't there before... I plan on maybe moving the motor forward to try to compensate. (actually running 12" setback bracket + Bob's 6" jackplate for a total of 18")

Would that be a good idea? I guess it will also help flotation of the rear of the hull? What kind of bracket could I use? (I think Bob's don't make negative angle setback brackets?)

What is a reasonable minimum setback to get clear water and minimize slip ? (Was thinking of moving 6" forward and get 12" setback).

Oh yes I forgot, I'm stock except for the tune, running a Bravo 1 FS 32 @ 6200 rpm and 97- 98 mph is the best I could get right now with some weight in the boat (2 pers, 2/3 fuel, and ~100lbs anchor, stuff etc) Problem is I can't jack higher than 1'' 1-1/2'' below pad because I haven't done the cone and LWP yet. So the only way I can loosen that prop is to trim and I feel the angle of the boat is more pronounced now because of the weight so I don't feel confortable going farther for now. With the other setup I would run the motor almost square and jack up to 1 1-1/2 above pad instead...

That leads me to my 2nd question, will shorther setback improve the angle at high speed ? I know the Bravo is more a bow lifting prop than the Cleaver (Merc high perf humpback) stern lifting prop I use to run. Might play a role in that for sure.

Anyways I plan on doing the cone this winter if I can find some time to do it and probably fatshaft at the same time because it seems the stock 1" shaft doesn't like surfacing. (I ran my 1" CLE with no problem but that's the info I got for the Yammies). And surfacing a Bravo might not be a good idea so that will probably lead me to another thread on possible mid venting/relief to run other props (possibly over the hub like I use to) and let that V6 sing a little.

I know it's a lot of mixed infos and questions but I just didn't wanted to start multiple threads so let me know if it would be better another way.

Thanks in advance for your help and knowledge.

[David]

What is the weight of a 300R vs a 200 SHO? I bet similar. What setback with the 300R?

I always thought that the 21 Cougar was a super cool boat

[Muskoka2]

What is the weight of a 300R vs a 200 SHO? I bet similar. What setback with the 300R?

I always thought that the 21 Cougar was a super cool boat

Randy Corson says a 300R is 562/Yamaha says a 200 SHO is 505!

[skialot2]

If you want to compare weights of the motors you have to go apples to apples. Both Mercury and Yamaha list the weights of their motors the same way.

Yamaha say the VMAX SHO V6 is 529 lbs. for the lightest model available. Shortest shaft, without motor oil, gearcase oil or a prop.

Mercury says the 300R V8 is 512 lbs. for the lightest model available. Shortest shaft without motor oil, gearcase oil or a prop.

These would be basically the net shipping weight of these motors. Randy Corson is obviously using the rigged weight for the 300R. 40 lbs. for 8+ quarts of oil plus a prop and other hardware sounds about right to me. Witha 17lb. difference, set up should be very similar.

[billy bilt]

CMS is probably 50 lbs lighter which I went with on my rig. AMS typically would also have wing plate and unbalance ram adding weight to after section of motor

If you want to compare weights of the motors you have to go apples to apples. Both Mercury and Yamaha list the weights of their motors the same way.

Yamaha say the VMAX SHO V6 is 529 lbs. for the lightest model available. Shortest shaft, without motor oil, gearcase oil or a prop.

Mercury says the 300R V8 is 512 lbs. for the lightest model available. Shortest shaft without motor oil, gearcase oil or a prop.

These would be basically the net shipping weight of these motors. Randy Corson is obviously using the rigged weight for the 300R. 40 lbs. for 8+ quarts of oil plus a prop and other hardware sounds about right to me. Witha 17lb. difference, set up should be very similar.

[GETBOATS]

My first question is do you know where the balance point was with the 260? If you do then don't change anything till you know how much it changed. My boat needed just 12 lbs attached to the backside of the bow D ring to make the necessary compensation for the added weight of the SHO. We had zero water pressure issues with the propeller shaft 1/2" below the pad, so you can go up for sure. No mention of solid mounts, if you have not done then you need to. Cheap and easy. I never found 4 blade that ran right, and it didn't like over blades. boat ran best with Yamaha's TXP 30 and 32, spun the 32 @ 6450 for 103-104. Simon tune, he said at the time 7 years ago was about 311 HP.

[jimmybrie]

You're actually doing pretty good without a low water pickup nosecone. that setup would normallyblow out in the mid eighties
neutral trim is your friend and getting that chopper to surface.
just did a 1991 cougar rebuild with 300R same exact setback and jackplate. runs 108-110 with 30P 5 blade Hill chopper. have a hill Barrel 30p that has more sternlift than I need and it will only run 104

Yes neutral trim + high height was the way to go with the 260.

For now 1" ish below pad is the max I can get.

''5 blade Hill chopper'' are you reffering to their drag 5 semi-cleaver over hub ? And ''Hill barrel 30p'' (thru hub cleaver 5 blades?)

That's the only thing I can find on their site pls excuse me for my ignorance.

For now I tried my cleaver over 4 blades and it took everything to get on plane (No mid relief)

''Get that chopper to surface'' are you considering a Bravo chopper style prop?

Thank you

[jimmybrie]

From what I've found the SHO is more around 540lbs in reality, unfortunately I was too in a hurry when I swapped the motors to weight it since the digital scale was at work and I was also a little short on crane height.

[jimmybrie]

My first question is do you know where the balance point was with the 260? If you do then don't change anything till you know how much it changed. My boat needed just 12 lbs attached to the backside of the bow D ring to make the necessary compensation for the added weight of the SHO. We had zero water pressure issues with the propeller shaft 1/2" below the pad, so you can go up for sure. No mention of solid mounts, if you have not done then you need to. Cheap and easy. I never found 4 blade that ran right, and it didn't like over blades. boat ran best with Yamaha's TXP 30 and 32, spun the 32 @ 6450 for 103-104. Simon tune, he said at the time 7 years ago was about 311 HP.

Unfortunately no, I don't know were the balance point was and neither where it is now. I guess you have to lift it with a sling to find it? I just know that the motor is probably 150-175 lbs heavier now since I had a non-offshore 260 (350lbs claimed I beleive). Maybe it could be calculated though with total weight and weight of both motors

The weight you added was a plate inside the hull back of the D ring I guess? (were you running a 2.5 before also on a 21 Cougar? What setback?

Solid mounts no not yet, I think the powerhead has to come off? I had a hard time just finding enough time this summer to swap the motors and re-rig (wiring was not oem, foot throttle mod, gauges, steering, etc, etc) since I had multiple projects going on. So I'm pretty happy just to have been able to test it in the stock form.

Yes 6450 will be my target for now.

Thank you

[GETBOATS]

you're chasing your tail without solid mounts, you won't believe the difference!!! yes power head has to come off, all you will need is a new base gasket. Wayne Worthy sells the mounts. Until you get it sorted out, only change one thing at a time, takes a little longer but in the end you will have leaned what actually worked. After the mounts are in and you've tested, go up where center line of propeller shaft in 1/2 below, test again watching water pressure, SHO will not make the kind of pressure you're used to, barley anything at idle. 15-16 or so full throttle. As far as balance concerned since you don't have that information, trail and error, a sand bag will work temporally. I found my solution by accident, boat had inline seats with a 260 friend riding one day. Boat broke over, the stern lifted, boat gained 300 RPM and 4 MPH. My engineer son saw my cave man approach to replicating the 260 friend on the flat drive way. I had batteries, chain, blocks, anything heavy. Asking what I was doing, I explained, pulled out his phone and in 3 minutes after a few questions and measuring problem solved. He Said "your need 11.6 lbs right here" pointing at the approx location the the bow eye/D ring. Boat was forever changed!! Take it slow and methodical.

[skialot2]

CMS is probably 50 lbs lighter which I went with on my rig. AMS typically would also have wing plate and unbalance ram adding weight to after section of motor

Did you go with the HD single ram CMS or the tri ram CMS?

[Speed Jr.]

It's pointless to tweek as everything will change when you have LWP and can get the motor 1-2" above the pad. Then you'll spin up a bigger prop, and go faster than any 2 stroke could. I'm a bigger fan of more setback and extending the tunnel. Food for thought.....

[billy bilt]

Did you go with the HD single ram CMS or the tri ram CMS?

TRi Ram

[billy bilt]