Evinrude MegaSquirt Injection ECU

[Boosting]

I was talking to some one re; E Tec Injection, taking about MegaSqurt ECU working very well, anyone care to comment? thanks

[rgsauger]

Welcome to scream and fly! Search for squirt and you’ll probably find some info on it.

[David - WI]

I was talking to some one re; E Tec Injection, taking about MegaSqurt ECU working very well, anyone care to comment? thanks

At the time I bought my MegaSquirt, the developers (Bowling & Grippo?) had absolutely no intention of doing any direct-injection (at least, not with MegaSquirt).

[BLisBack!]

Way more complex than EFI needs to be! And definitely not 2 stroke focused, no that it can't do 2 stroke just not built from the start for that platform. No touchscreen interface either which is trick like VSFI.

-BL

[PanRonnie]

Well that's not correct!

https://dd-efi.com/

And you can use the cheap 7 inch raspberry display with a full version of tunerstudio!
Not 2 stroke focused?
What does that mean ?

[H2OPERF]

There is alot of new stuff out there but not much is geared to be used around Water, anything with general use d-sub style rectangular connectors wont last long around the water. Molded O ringed housings and mating connectors with sealed wire grommets and coated boards are the only thing that will last around salt water even just the Salt air. The new fueltech like gordon at monty racing is using boast to be water proof and is a single unit dash /ecu all in one pretty cool. I think on the initial post ... he may have been mislead an was talking about adding standard EFI to an etec based powerhead, my guess anyway.

[PanRonnie]

There are some other options than the complete diy options
If you do a fuel only version a v2.2 can be enough with JB peak and hold boards if you want to use low impendance injectors with the 4 channels and you build your own casing
The same with the ms3 pro module board but 8 channels high impendance drivers no idea if you can reroute the logic level high to drive low impendance boards like you can on the v2.2
Or you can buy an Ultimate which is not very cheap anymore

[BLisBack!]

Well that's not correct!

https://dd-efi.com/

And you can use the cheap 7 inch raspberry display with a full version of tunerstudio!
Not 2 stroke focused?
What does that mean ?

You could do that but.... That software (tunerstudio) was designed for a desktop not a 7" screen. It would be like viewing a desktop website on your mobile device. Very awkward and frustrating. VSFI touchscreen SW was designed for a 7" screen and made to be operated at speed in a boat, not in a chair behind a desk. You need no extra SW, no drivers, no updates, no plugins, no specific OS, nothing. And the ECU will run without it if desired.

On designed for 2 strokes....

VSFI was designed specifically for 2 strokes and it can meet timing to 12k rpm because it has 3 parallel cores. The processing for ignition, fuel and touchscreen are performed by 3 processing cores in parallel. No one big processor, even if it is 32 bit, will be able to make timing consistently, interrupts will have to be prioritized. Furthermore, I'll send you the waveforms and logic analyzer output to prove it. Who at FuelTech is gonna do that? NOBODY!

VSFI has two crank sensors, one for after start when the ECU knows the rpm, the second is for a magneto like circuit during cranking before rpm is known. This allows instant starts in under one crank rev (for an outboard starting in gear this is key). VSFI also has a primer circuit to allow for instant starts, no need to crank 2,3,4 revs before the fuel fills the crankcase and gets into the chambers, and certainly no need for starting fluid or having to start at full timing. (not needed on 4 strokes obviously)

Speaking of timing, VSFI allows engine and injector timing to be controlled from the dashboard with BIG buttons, not burried in a menu system designed for desktop computers. VSFI has integrated engine starting and integrated charging, FuelTech don't think so.

Boats are very noisy environment electrically, no natural "faraday cage" of a car chassis. VSFI is 100% optically isolated, the CPUs are 100% isolated from the wiring harness to prevent false triggers and ensure stability. FuelTec nope.

There's much more as well, how about timing reduction during prop blow-out? FuelTec answer you phone! FuelTec and MegaSquirt simply can't compare. So lets say you come up with something your boat needs like a diff nitrous enrichment algorithm, think you're gonna get support from FuelTec? Ha! With VSFI, I'll work with you to get it right so it matches you setup. You're on your own with other systems.

Its basically a system designed from scratch from someone in the boating community. Although it did win its first race installed on a twin turbo BBC making 1700hp in a car.

-BL

[BLisBack!]

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying, I'm not out to just bust on other ECUs. 15yrs ago when I was considering EFI for my outboard I looked at the Mega Squirt system and said to myself "man that seems awfully complex, there has to be a simpler way". The formula for the period using for speed density is crazy! I thought, why not just deliver a period X milliseconds long and let the user adjust it as he is going down the river? Would that even work? Base it off the throttle position in a simple 2D map. I said to myself, why don't I build something like that, I have 35+ years experience in EE and embedded software, I'm up on all the latest CPUs and MCUs! So I did (VSFI), but I did it with the latest stuff from scratch not downloading DIY designs off the web or using some pirated OEM system that had its roots in the 70s from some European car manufacturer (there are several like that).

Turns out what I just described is known as an "Alpha-N" system, and works great for most applications. I like to call it a TPS based system (Throttle Position Sensor). You simply tune your period at speed holding the hand held tuner, up for rich, down for lean. Then the ECU can save it or simply use it as a trim to an existing saved map. Works like a champ! Then I went back an implemented the Speed Density formula for that type of system using a MAP sensor (Manifold Pressure). Works but not really necessary for outboards.

Fact of the matter I discovered is this... these 2 stroke motors will suck down just about any mix at WOT given the ignition timing is correct. It don't matter what is mixing the fuel, carb, simple batch injector system, precise port injection or bubba with a spray can of gumout With EFI you can vary the period up to two milliseconds when using EFI if the system allows you to do so in real time (hand held tuner, steam wheel etc). It really is that simple, just a matter of whether the ECU allows you to do easily. So the overly complex Mega Squirt system was de-bunked.

Now, other things, where it really is challenging is low speeds, idle, starting under all temps. Starting is the most challenging moment for an ECU. Its where the noise in the system is the highest from the starter and spark is usually the weakest for if you're running an OEM magneto type system. The OEMs went to DFI because the wanted better low speed control and better emissions. At WOT there is simply no diff to the motor, if the mix is right it burns it. There are other challenges as well there's EMI, Transient Voltage spikes, Fly-back Voltage spikes, ground bounce and other stuff . But a good HW design can handle that as I talked about above.

So really what EFI gives you is: easier faster starting, low speed control, ability to control ignition timing, ability to control main fuel and extra fuel for enrichment (thinking nitrous here) and emissions (which nobody outside the OEMs cares about, its simply a fart in a hurricane to the handful of users that may have their setup too rich). If you're not into that, stick with carbs, the motor will not know the diff at WOT (for the most part). Besides, fuel rails packed with 60psi of fuel on each side of the motor is actually pretty dangerous if a rod lets go!

Sorry for the rant

-BL

[BLisBack!]

Oh, one other thing, when going up and down on the period in real time, use the EGTs as a good guide to how far you can go

-BL

[PanRonnie]

I would not call the MS1 complex, the original EFI 332 pproject maybe which is why they did the fuel only controllers with the first V1.1 boards
http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mintro.htm

this is essentially the calculation
pulse width = Req_Fuel × VE(rpm,kpa) × MAP × E + Injector_open_time

Later came the V2.2 boards which i still have with the injector flyback boards for low impendance injectors! great times wire your money through western union to Al Grippo and hope you get your stuff
then order the Digikey BOM and pick up your soldering iron
I always viewed megasquirt as a way to teach your self about EFI or eletronic fuel injection the ignition part was only later added for distributors
somebody did a code version for 6 ignition outputs on the MS1 but this was very taxing and they ran out of ram
The MS2 was a major step forward with added capability,s

That was one of the best times on the forum with multiple people writing addons as you could assemble the code, that is how i managed the mercury 60-6 code version
but as megasquirt has become more proffesional it has also become closed off which i find disappointing, the forum is also low on traffic so it really shows

But because of the DIY solder options you are very free to do what you want with it
so to get back to the original quistion of the evinrude ETEC injectors
they run at a higher voltage than 12 volt, i think it is 40 volts for both the Ficht and the ETEC injecctors which is not a problem as you could build a driver box with Mosfets watercooled
the problem comes with the ETEC that has 40 volts system ECU regulated as opposed tot the Ficht system
now it has been a time since i was looking into this just for fun but you run into so many problems you should ask yourself is it worth it

probably easier to do just normal port injection and go from there
i spent way to much time messing with this stuff and now just want to enjoy being actually on the water
at the moment just datalogging with the megasquirts nothing else atleast not on the water maybe end of this summer see what i can do with my itty bitty screen on the boat
see if you can get to a usable fuel mapping quick with just adjusting the required fuel VE value and the autotune part of Tunerstudio it worked quit well with the laptop on the boat but i could not keep an eye on it as the screen would start to lay flat when bouncing on the waves

so now i have a raspberry 4 4 gigabyte with a sunlight readable screen it works with touch but a keyboard is still handier

pulse width = Req_Fuel × VE(rpm,kpa) × MAP × E + Injector_open_time

[BLisBack!]

That's interesting that they went to closed source. I wonder if it was due to liability? Good stuff nonetheless, glad to see there are others that like to take full control of their engines!

I tried the laptop thing early on and that was as you said impossible. I experimented with an app on my phone (iPhone) and a wifi chipset in the ECU. It worked but a smart phone screen is just too small and the certification crap to get an app on an iPhone is plain crazy. 7" touchscreen is the way to go but due to parts availability issues they are hard to get right now. With Linux running on the touchscreen, and Qt/QML for the GUI you can put together smoe slick stuff for small screens.

I think the eTec injectors are AC not DC. You just need a H-bridge circuit to drive them and maybe a power supply, external or SMPS. But like you said, why? With port injectors I can do just as much although the starting and idle could be even smoother which is why OEMs use them so much, but if you want nitrous enrichment, I don't think it will work through the OEM DFI injectors.

-BL

[InjectorService]

Etec injectors are a square wave A/C 55v.

[BLisBack!]

What is ch1 on the first waveform?

-BL

[Boosting]

Thanks for the replys, lots to think about...sorry for the late reply...Ive lots of stuff going on right now....