Hey Mercury

[CUDA]

Dr. Alex Hledin who makes a lot of the f1H2O motors said they'll have to de-tune the motors to 9,000 r.p.m. next year for crank longevity-getting hard to find!

That's a real problem right there, I've got five Nic 2.5 blocks, but my builder don't like anything but perfect cranks, I was given a heads up to buy the end of the run, but I did not, now kicking myself,
Didn't Matthew Caldwell have Marine crankshaft company making his ?
Years ago I wanted a 2.5 stroker shaft made and I was told I had to have two made, was going to do a pro gas project with Wayne Taylor, then he died. but they should make a bunch of stock ones.

Short course drag racing they spin to 11,000, in pro class.

[David]

The 200XS didn't sell in part because it had no warranty and cost more than a 300XS. Would it have sold with a 5-year warranty and a more reasonable price? Perhaps not as the market is for big boats.

At one point I had a lightly modified 150XR4 on my SS2000 and wanted to upgrade. I thought the 200XS was over-priced and that a more reasonably priced Promax replacement would come to pass. I bought a used 225 Promax as an interim motor. Eventually I realized nothing was coming and was able to buy a 200XS ROS on this site.

What available new boats is the 200XS is suited for? Tuff 20, maybe they build 3-4 per year? The 8 XR2001's that Allison will build? Hydrostream Vegas that no one is buying. Anything else? How big is the repower market?

Of course, the argument is circular. No boat builders built 18-20' fast boats, so there is no market for the 200XS. No motors are available so on one builds the boats.

[aggiestckl]

STV cranks out a **** ton of boats.. the boating scene alive and well in Florida

[JPEROG]

STV cranks out a **** ton of boats.. the boating scene alive and well in Florida

How many boats does Jack deliver in a year? My guess is 6 or 7 at best. The "majority" market for outboards is on bigger boats for sure. The other aspect of it is that there is much more profit in the bigger performance outboards and Mercury is a publicly traded company that operates to please both shareholders along with their customers. It would be great to see the 23 footer that Roark had "ready to go" come to production status. A new V-8 on one of those would be a great package. The Argo works really well with a V-8 as well "again 23 ft." The Twisters work really well "24 ft.". The LCBs and Liberators are the smallest boats I am aware of that will handle and support a new V8 and that is really the lenght it takes to run on any decent size body of water these days.

When ever we run the St. Johns its a crap shoot if the smaller guys can run across Lake George or not which limits half the trip if there is any wind. Even the Kissimmee chain limits who can go out comfortably on many days. The Fox chain in IL. has also become so much more active that small boats "that used to be the norm" are not practical for everyday use. This along with the fact that people continue to run bigger boats and wake boats on almost all of our waterways really limit the use of smaller stuff in today's world.

Joe

[aggiestckl]

How many boats does Jack deliver in a year? My guess is 6 or 7 at best. The market for outboards is on bigger boats for sure. The other aspect of it is that there is much more profit in the bigger performance outboards and Mercury is a publicly traded company that operates to please both shareholders along with their customers. It would be great to see the 23 footer that Roark had "ready to go" come to production status. A new V-8 on one of those would be a great package. The Argo works really well with a V-8 as well "again 23 ft." The Twisters work really well "24 ft.". The LCBs and Liberators are the smallest boats I am aware of that will handle and support a new V8 and that is really the lenght it takes to run on any decent size body of water these days.

When ever we run the St. Johns its a crap shoot if the smaller guys can run across Lake George or not which limits half the trip if there is any wind. Even the Kissimmee chain limits who can go out comfortably on many days. The Fox chain in IL. has also become so much more active that small boats "that used to be the norm" are not practical for everyday use. This along with the fact that people continue to run bigger boats and wake boats on almost all of our waterways really limit the use of smaller stuff in today's world.

Joe

Cant really disagree with you Joe.. I’ve had piles of boats like yourself. The one I use the most is the 24’ Superboat.. 23’ and larger seems to be the size

loved my Argo, would like to have another..shame can’t get a professional shop to sell them stateside, would be much better than current arrangement Dennis has

Regarding the bigger boats argument.. also hard to argue.. my experience with Performance Boat is an actual business dealing, legit, on time, and the absolute highest quality with both DW and MTI I’ve purchased.

Compare this with what it’s like to do anything 2.5 related and it’s head and shoulders different.. different quality, different dealing, different everything.

The margin to serve this market is zero.. zero money to be made.. disagree?? Sell a motor or part and see all the bs that comes with it

[CUDA]

First of all we all know that boats aren't like cars, what I mean is we keep remodeling the older small boats,
rip out the core and in most circumstances better than new because of better resin and core material, I don't see this stopping,
So It's not like the hey days of Hydrostream selling hundreds of boats, remember most of those boats were too small to install real power, they were made for small motors, so many of them have been freshen up and made better than new, that's Cool, one does not have to go 100 mph with a group fully loaded, In the old days on the Niagara river I knew I had to change my course on weekends, go the long way around Grand Island because of all the big boat traffic, It is what it is, to water ski many days we went to Canada to find smooth water, nothing has changed, but the advent of wake boards. they are like speed zones for manatees, you hate them but you have to deal with it.
I understand the profit thing but they can't keep up with the demand since outboards have taken over the bigger boat market so quickly, I'm just saying throw us a bone, make the bean counters turn their ugly head for once
The V8 is just too heavy for our market, just asking for a HP model for the under 21 foot group.
Then use that one for the champ boat, F1H2O group.
They always used a specially produced motor, how about a Supercharged V-6

[JLanier571]

LCBs have no problem with the V8s. There's 4 available used on FB marketplace with motors!

[stan r]

First of all, I ‘ll disclose I am 71 years old. I started boating at 14. Back then in the 1960’s on our lakes in Indiana the outboard boats were 14,15, and maybe 16 ft. The inboards were 16,17, 18 ft. The largest outboard motors were Mercury 100hp and Chrysler 105hp. Over the years, the boats got bigger as well as the horsepowers. Just imagine my 14ft. Glastron with my 40hp. Johnson getting swamped by todays 21,22,23,24,25 ft. boats. Did I mention Wake Boats! To have fun and be safe, you had to unfortunately, go bigger. Several years ago, I found it necessary to go from my beloved STV to a 21 ft. Liberator. Now looking back, maybe Hellbents-10 is a lot smarter guy than me with his Tuff 24. I know everything cost more, again unfortunately, but you can’t buy a Mustang for $4000, a gallon of gas for .26 cents, or a coke for a nickel.

[stan r]

Second thoughts. With the New Green Deal and it’s push for higher fuel prices (some say it’s only started) and the pretty rapid inflation this could change things. Economically speaking, with these rising costs the “average” boater, to stay on the water, may have to downsize size and horsepower. Just maybe, this could reverse a trend of the last 50 to 60 years! Who knows these days, just whatever boat you own be careful and safe my friends!!

[CUDA]

Yes but a young person has more important desires than a $100,000. boat payment, ask his wife...

Top 1/4 mile bike over 200 hp ZX14r $15,000 new https://www.kawasaki.com/en-us/motor...t/ninja-zx-14r

225HP outboard over $20,000 just motor ... ?

The price of everything has gotten so out of hand, compared to income, for the common man.

[wicheckmate]

Yes but a young person has more important desires than a $100,000. boat payment, ask his wife...

Top 1/4 mile bike over 200 hp ZX14r $15,000 new https://www.kawasaki.com/en-us/motor...t/ninja-zx-14r

225HP outboard over $20,000 just motor ... ?

The price of everything has gotten so out of hand, compared to income, for the common man.

both my mirage and stv can handle the weight of the ETEC .. they can handle the weight of a 300r. People just have to change set up and there way of thinking of how to traditionally set up a boat. Or modify one to be able to make it work.. like some of us are doing ……..

[HydroSkreamin]

I understand the profit thing but they can't keep up with the demand since outboards have taken over the bigger boat market…

Do you understand the profit thing?? If you personally have 5 big paying jobs (repeat customers) and one barely profitable job(new customer), which ones are you going to pay attention to? When customers are putting 5-6 big engines on the transom, do you think we’re going to get their attention with “I might buy one if you build it”?

The V8 is just too heavy for our market… how about a Supercharged V-6

If you put a supercharger on the V6 it’s going to weigh as much or more than the V8



I can tell you from experience that this boat ran 14 mph faster with a single 400R than it did with two 200 Johnson V6’s. It floats better as well.

The 450R is 18 lbs heavier and acceleration is off the charts compared to the 400R.




This boat replaced my 77 Viking (200 Carb V6 Merc), because it can handle the weekend slop with my family on board and still run respectably.

It gets 4+ mpg@60, and 3+ cruising at 85, and burns 89 octane (REC90 is fine) and is a hoot to drive. It’s not a cheap option, but all I do is change oil and mess with props. These bigger torque 4-strokes like blade area.

If there was truly numbers with repeat customers, Merc would be catering. Joe’s combination on Kory’s STV was my suggestion and runs respectable using parts from the Merc bin. And yes, it can still be warrantied that way because they didn’t alter calibration whatsoever. Truthfully, what’s going to break pushing 175-200 HP through something qualified for 450??

Unfortunately, our community is too small, so if we want to keep it alive, we’re going to have to get resourceful. And cheap is out of the question if you’re looking for turn-key. Sure you can scrapyard your own 2-stroke or 4-stroke combo together, but then you are the warranty department, too. Those don’t go back together with good parts for cheap either.

WavetoWave showed what a stock 150 4-stroke with a nose cone could do on the Allison…what a neat project! If he’d have started with a ProXS with more RPM, solid mounts top and bottom and a Sporty case I think it would be faster yet. And how about a blue bottle? A 50-75 shot would be interesting if propped accordingly. That engine is basically half of a 6L LS if you look at it. Lots of potential if you really wanted to mess with it and put aftermarket electronics on it. That’s neither cheap nor easy either, but certainly very doable.

One way isn’t right over the other, but the owner needs to be comfortable with their decision. Seems like CRT was going to keep Merc 2-strokes alive and I haven’t seen much to prove it…if it was profitable, someone would be doing it right this instant.

It’s up to us to figure it out.

[lake p.a.l.]

Merc or any other manufacturer could build a 400lb outboard with 250-300hp that revs to 7500 and has a full 3 year warranty for $15,000 and they still wouldn't sell enough of them to be economical responsible. Would they sell 300 or 500 of them? I enjoy that everyone has the right to their own opinion. I don't believe we will see a lightweight, 300+ hp outboard until they figure out how to build electric outboards that run more than 6-10 minutes at speed

[Ziemer]

Will they be able to make a electric motor sound like a 2.5 or 300x?

What's funny is that Borla makes a speaker system for the new electric Mustang. Sounds just like a 5.0, but comes from external speakers. Even connected to the ECM to match the throttle position.

[Pulse186]

Mercury doesn't make small lightweight outboards because the profit percentage isn't beneficial to shareholder value.

Why bother with a small profit when you can make a huge profit, but this is corporate america in a nutshell.

Before the haters jump on I'm not bashing 4 strokes, if they were cheaper I'd have one. It is from a corporate bean counter standpoint why lightweight, affordable performance outboards will never be seen again.