Ford is giving up

[Instigator]

He claims no drivability issues even on snowy nights stuck in bumper to bumper traffic jams with the defrost heater , wipers going, loves it.
In your case the paid for reliability etc are bonus but one day maybe you'll need a replacement. I have a neighbour with a new Chev EV, two years. Snappy fast in traffic, stupid cheap to run down the road, says prefers it to his BMW.
For the long extended trips it's limiting but not impossible. Even rural living going to town etc , great. Chev had a good hybrid Tahoe a few years back, still see them driving around.

So running your AC/heat/defroster off your drive batteries has no effect on range ��

BTW, you spelled "neighbor" wrong.

[FMP]

I think the system is self regulating on load and conditions, but yes it does shorten range when on pure battery but that Chevy has a genny in the trunk!
That's how we spell it on this side of the fence neighbour.

[altamate]

Electric vehicles have their place and I’m sure in a multi vehicle family everyone will have one someday. Lots of people who will either walk, public transit or electric car as only car is coming too.

But trucks have their place too and Elon Musk is the P.T. Barnum of our day.

[CUDA]

"Elon Musk is the P.T. Barnum of our day."

OMG I can't believe someone that can type would type anything that uninformed , sans politics

SpaceX is science fiction and , SolarCity is a comic book ...

My brother Loves his S and many of my clients own and rave about their Tesla's, these are people who can buy ANYTHING they want because money is no

object, If you want to see someone smile ask a Tesla owner how they like their vehicle.

[altamate]

"Elon Musk is the P.T. Barnum of our day."

OMG I can't believe someone that can type would type anything that uninformed , sans politics

SpaceX is science fiction and , SolarCity is a comic book ...

My brother Loves his S and many of my clients own and rave about their Tesla's, these are people who can buy ANYTHING they want because money is no

object, If you want to see someone smile ask a Tesla owner how they like their vehicle.

Sucker born every minute, in this case he has suckered the tax payers to subsidize your brother and his rich friends new car purchase. You helped $$$ your brother buy that S and you are happy about it.

“Big Sucker”

Plus if they are such a great car why can’t they be sold unsubsidized for what they cost to build plus a reasonable profit so Tesla can be a viable company. Why do people who can buy anything they want need a $20,000+ discount on them. Would they still buy them at ful price?

[CDave]

For those living in dense urban city the practicality of a 400hp pickup isn't high on the list. A roomy well built sedan to a little eco compact for city driving is by far the choice. Electrics even better.
Was speaking with a Chev EV owner, has had his for years, high milage, salty winters, perfect car, pennies to run.

That makes sense in densely populated cities. There are more cities that aren't densely populated so the needs are different. The right tool for the job.

I'm still driving my 1995 K1500 I bought used in 1998. I drive so little these days a tank of gas last me a month. So I have less eco impact than the average driver of a new hybrid.
I would like to have a new vehicle but with my budget, being disabled, it makes more sense to keep this old truck. I can still work on it as not everything is controlled by computers like new vehicles.

[Instigator]

That makes sense in densely populated cities. There are more cities that aren't densely populated so the needs are different. The right tool for the job.

I'm still driving my 1995 K1500 I bought used in 1998. I drive so little these days a tank of gas last me a month. So I have less eco impact than the average driver of a new hybrid.
I would like to have a new vehicle but with my budget, being disabled, it makes more sense to keep this old truck. I can still work on it as not everything is controlled by computers like new vehicles.

Yep.

I look at and like some of the new vehicles but what I like is $50k+ and homey don't play dat.

I bought my '06 TDI Passat when we were driving 400 mls every weekend w/2 dogs.
Now that we're not doing that anymore and after getting the insurance bill for it, it goes up for sale and my '97, 230,000 mile truck becomes my daily driver.

My dad was an electrical engineer and tried to get me to get into and study batteries.
40 yrs ago hr felt that was the future for electric cars.
He was right.
Part of what makes Teslas run so good is the are basically using cell phone batteries where no one else can afford to.

Here is a paper my dad wrote a while back.

[LakeFever]

For the record, once again I will state in my first remark re EV that I have zero issue with them as a concept or a product bring em on, fantastic.

What I do not support and no one else should either is the process for how they are being brought to market. Its a game of push/pull economics that centers around debt, and placing everyone into so much of it that the few will have complete control over the entire economy. Thats the issue and thats the problem and this is where big gub't is doing dirty on EVERYONE. Whether you buy an EV or not it is entirely improper for the gov't to take loans out on your liability to coerce the market into buying undervalued product to manipulate the economy into negative growth. In laymans terms this means its entirely BAT **** CRAZY to gut profitable companies and producers to float money into companies and products that are not profitable. The law of diminishing returns is one of the most basic economic principles and running this liberal subsidy game literally REVERSES the law of diminishing returns into the law of INCREASING DEBT

It is bat **** nuts. It will end in utter disaster! Think about public water works. Think about how everyone was using river, lake, or well water prior to public water works. Look into how the gov't of the day secured funding and billing structure to make public water WORK. That model? Is fine.

The current climate model and green/EV subsidy program is a turd economically speaking a total dud and there is NO REASON for it. NONE!!!! Thats the issue. Solve it, its easy, get the government OUT of it

[Forkin' Crazy]

"Elon Musk is the P.T. Barnum of our day."

OMG I can't believe someone that can type would type anything that uninformed , sans politics

SpaceX is science fiction and , SolarCity is a comic book ...

My brother Loves his S and many of my clients own and rave about their Tesla's, these are people who can buy ANYTHING they want because money is no

object, If you want to see someone smile ask a Tesla owner how they like their vehicle.

The majority of his income comes from the government. I though you hated people like that???

After they put a Ti skid plate on the bottom to prevent punctures to the batteries (spelled EXTREME FIRE HAZARD) I hear they are more reliable.

[Forkin' Crazy]

So running your AC/heat/defroster off your drive batteries has no effect on range ��

BTW, you spelled "neighbor" wrong.

I know a woman that has one. I asked her about the air conditioning. I was surprised to hear her say the AC works just fine, but the heater sucks!!! And uses the battery big time. And if it sucks in north Louisiana, how would be up north?? She also said that now after 5 years it is ready for a new battery... $$$$$$$$$.

But these cars are soooooooooooo clean. The power comes from a wall socket don't ya know. And that lithium strip mine? Well that is in another country soooo......

[Forkin' Crazy]

You guys missed James' point. It was just another hit on Trump.... and in the Lounge again....? WTF do you not understand the rules, James? The are pretty simple I would think that even a soft headed liberal such as yourself could understand.

On cars
https://jalopnik.com/the-2019-ford-f...s-t-1828745055

Why didn't you just post the title of the article?

The 2019 Ford Focus Is Dead For U.S. Thanks To Trump's Tariffs, Mustang Last Car Standing

Poor James is suffering from TDS.

[FMP]

Subsidies to oil/gas $10-50Billion?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/drillin.../#55e6f6b16e1c

[Forkin' Crazy]

Subsidies to oil/gas $10-50Billion?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/drillin.../#55e6f6b16e1c

Some call them subsidies and some call them tax breaks. The haters, of course, call them subsidies.

[LakeFever]

Tax breaks incentivize growth, Subsidies hinder growth.

The entire premise of Keynes was to flood debt fuel into flattened economic times and pull back upon rebound. We tried it, it doesnt work. Scientific method says Keynes is a quack. Lets move on and build a better way forward

[CUDA]

The incentives are to stimulate the whole industry , and now that Tesla is hitting the 200,000 production mark it will be diminished .



https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/1...it-ending-date