400R Post 1193 Fountain 130 MPH

**Rayzor** · 06-06-2018, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Chaz

Mid Life , It could "quite possibly" be a westie thing . But I think you , Cuda and I are old enough to sense , it's more of a dad or grand-pa's trustie thing that draws Cuda's attention . Nothing more - nothing less .. Please pass the Grey Poupon

Chaz, you're such a POS. I'm a college graduate of Cal State Hayward (now Cal State East Bay) with a degree in communications and a minor in advertising, and I've owned my own construction company since I was 29 years old (started as an electrical contractor in 1999). I have been a general contractor since 2003, and do nothing but commercial work. I've worked hard for every dime I've ever made. Why don't you do a Google search on Delta Contracting, Inc.? You'll see me listed as the president. You're the reason I often leave this site - just as I will once again...…...

**NICE PAIR** · 06-06-2018, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by CUDA

I FIXED it for Ya

Attachment 409459

**Speed Jr.** · 06-07-2018, 07:24 AM

You may want to re read Chaz' post. There was no dig towards you Razor. It was referencing what gets Cudas panties in a bunch over anyone with anything nice as it bothers him cause hes an unhappy person himself. With a communications degree one would think you would have picked up on that. (Just playin around)

Originally Posted by Rayzor

Chaz, you're such a POS. I'm a
college graduate of Cal State Hayward (now Cal State East Bay) with a degree in communications and a minor in advertising, and I've owned my own construction company since I was 29 years old (started as an electrical contractor in 1999). I have been a general contractor since 2003, and do nothing but commercial work. I've worked hard for every dime I've ever made. Why don't you do a Google search on Delta Contracting, Inc.? You'll see me listed as the president. You're the reason I often leave this site - just as I will once again...…...

**Boss** · 06-07-2018, 08:34 AM

So looking at the numbers, to go from 123 to 131, I'm guessing they would need about another 50hp per side??? If so that seems pretty obtainable with a couple lbs of boost, good fuel, and maybe a slightly less conservative tune.

**Chaz** · 06-07-2018, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Rayzor

Chaz, you're such a POS. I'm a college graduate of Cal State Hayward (now Cal State East Bay) with a degree in communications and a minor in advertising, and I've owned my own construction company since I was 29 years old (started as an electrical contractor in 1999). I have been a general contractor since 2003, and do nothing but commercial work. I've worked hard for every dime I've ever made. Why don't you do a Google search on Delta Contracting, Inc.? You'll see me listed as the president. You're the reason I often leave this site - just as I will once again...…...

Dale , Dale , Dale , your major was in communications . Yet you lose your composure and resort to name calling right off the bat . I sure hope you buildings are better than your communication skills ..

**Spectre Powerboats** · 06-07-2018, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Boss

So looking at the numbers, to go from 123 to 131, I'm guessing they would need about another 50hp per side??? If so that seems pretty obtainable with a couple lbs of boost, good fuel, and maybe a slightly less conservative tune.

What I was told it took 90 to 100 hp per motor to achieve the extra speed. Either way, it does let us know what it takes to make an outboard cat run those numbers.

In all honesty, I hate seeing these outboards achieving those numbers, because as light as they are and the speeds they will be running. We are going to see an increase in accidents and we all hate that.

**AZMIDLYF** · 06-07-2018, 09:47 AM

I agree Todd. It used to be a more experienced boater that was able to coax these numbers from a hull. Now anyone with the funds hops into a ready made triple digit craft and gets lulled into safety. Heck, these huge center console boats full of passengers rolling along leisurely at 80+ is cause to be concerned. Great times but with an air of concern as well.

**JPEROG** · 06-07-2018, 10:02 AM

Its not as much of a power increase that was needed (I really doubt that the motors are making much more power then stock) but they are up against the limiter once you get them mounted high enough and running on the blade tips of the 35 cnc propellers. I know that Myric and I had the 36 Doug Wright pinned to the limiters several times. So all that it takes is to let it over rev a few hundred and get the increased prop speed to translate into the extra mph. The Verados will pull timing when they are over boosted to compensate against a failure and the camshaft will fall off soon after the 7150 peak as well.

I totally agree with Todd and I have had the conversation with several others about the fact that these outboards are going to make a 5,000 boat capable of speeds that were only achieved by boats weighing twice that (inboards) up until this point. There is no question in my mind that an outboard cat running North of 130 is an accident waiting to happen. You simply don't have the chance to recover them once they are out of shape at that speed. With the propshafts running this high, you are in a kite and along for the ride if the attach angle goes away. Its a lot different when you are running a mega hp inboard, you feel light, you jam the sticks and it plants the front end due to raw transom lift through the big props. I have spent a decent amount of time in both and they are very different animals.

Inboard guys sometimes laugh at the outboards until they ride in them "then they get nervous when things are so light".

Joe

**Boss** · 06-07-2018, 12:39 PM

Just some random thoughts:

A few hundred RPM might be all it takes to get the speed needed, but it takes power to turn the props to get that RPM speed too. I'm still guessing it takes around 450hp per side to pick up that additional 8mph they reportedly gained. The DW's that are running 126 or so with 400 a side would likely pick up to around 134 with 40's. With 500's, we are probably talking 140 mph.
The wide tunnels in these modern cats doesn't make them any safer either.

Luckily real world weights (adding 1000 lbs of gear, fuel, and multiple passengers, etc) will slow a 130mph light weight cat down to around 118mph or so. A 140mph boat would slow down to a to around 127 or so. Still fast, but it's probably not nearly as much of an accident waiting to happen as one might think when talking about the same boat lightened up for max speed. Not to mention, one would hope a stripped down boat wouldn't be out hunting record speeds in less than ideal conditions.

The real danger threshold IMO is around 125mph, above that and we start hearing about a lot more boats flipping. As you guys are pointing out, we are quickly about to cross over that line with OB cats. I don't think anyone would disagree that Merc will be releasing a supercharged version of their new V8. Modded engines will push the envelope even further. Luckily (???) the lowers on these OB's might keep things from getting too far out of control, but 400hp is likely only the beginning!

**Double Rigged** · 06-08-2018, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by Screaming Eagle Boats

What I was told it took 90 to 100 hp per motor to achieve the extra speed. Either way, it does let us know what it takes to make an outboard cat run those numbers.

In all honesty, I hate seeing these outboards achieving those numbers, because as light as they are and the speeds they will be running. We are going to see an increase in accidents and we all hate that.

Great Post Todd,
Finally someone who has a stake in the game that realizes where this is headed. Only ones that have run these boats in adverse conditions truly understands what is going on. IMO these boats with already have more than enough power for someone with minimal experience.
It will be only a matter of time until another unfortunate accident happens. I also would love more HP but love the way my boat handles with not so much weight on the transom.

**Bullhead Bully** · 06-08-2018, 08:10 AM

I agree with both of you . My Nordic 28 is a perfect match with the 400s. It needs no more power. However when you start going over 30 approaching 36 feet. I think more power is welcome. It’s all proportional.

I don’t think it’s going to be long before the 36 and 40 foot cats are going to be pushed by a pair of outboards at an impressive three digit number. At a fraction of the cost invested (compared to inboards) as well as much lower operating expenses.

**WILDMAN** · 06-08-2018, 09:23 AM

Liberator in Texas is building a 25 Liberator now with twin 400's. If it is setup properly, it should run. Unfortunately it probably won't be. It has the centerpod, so I don't think the weight should be an issue. All the new 25's have the pod and do not hop.

**Spectre Powerboats** · 06-08-2018, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by WILDMAN

Liberator in Texas is building a 25 Liberator now with twin 400's. If it is setup properly, it should run. Unfortunately it probably won't be. It has the centerpod, so I don't think the weight should be an issue. All the new 25's have the pod and do not hop.

And this may turn out really bad for the boating community. I hope not.

**Davidlake** · 06-08-2018, 10:36 AM

I remember back in, maybe 2013, somebody attempted to run an 21 Liberator with twin 300XS's. As my memory serves me, his first time out he stuffed it and it went to the bottom!

**AZMIDLYF** · 06-08-2018, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Bullhead Bully

I agree with both of you . My Nordic 28 is a perfect match with the 400s. It needs no more power. However when you start going over 30 approaching 36 feet. I think more power is welcome. It’s all proportional.

I don’t think it’s going to be long before the 36 and 40 foot cats are going to be pushed by a pair of outboards at an impressive three digit number. At a fraction of the cost invested (compared to inboards) as well as much lower operating expenses.

Bully, I don't know if you remember this one off 368 Skater breaking into triple digits already...