LOOPER TECH TIP's.........

[racer]

Les I actually was measuring intake water flow on a running engine while on the dyno, I had valves that I could control flow and you get to a point that you just increase pressure. I also had multiple temp probes in the water flow to monitor coolant temp in different portions of the block. The closed deck 3.0 head has a poor thermostat and that is the issue not block flow, I modified the head to accept a different style thermo which would allow for increased flow. The 3.3 or most any of the newer engines are using a valve to bypass the thermostat for increased flow, IMO the thermostat is the restriction as you have shown with the mod you posted photo of.

By the way I did a lot of coolant testing for OMC and it was incorporated into the 3.3 blocks. IMO temp under the plug while useful does not tell the whole story.

Yes Gordon has done a lot of work to make power on these engines, Stan I am not so sure of other than he use to call me often.

Problem with leaving the DFI head is the head was not designed for a non DFI induction system and the deepth/squish are not ideal for power or rpm, also the short rod is hard on pistons when rpm is raised.

Respectfully,
Alan Stoker

[Performance Unlimited]

Les I actually was measuring intake water flow on a running engine while on the dyno, I had valves that I could control flow and you get to a point that you just increase pressure. I also had multiple temp probes in the water flow to monitor coolant temp in different portions of the block. The closed deck 3.0 head has a poor thermostat and that is the issue not block flow, I modified the head to accept a different style thermo which would allow for increased flow. The 3.3 or most any of the newer engines are using a valve to bypass the thermostat for increased flow, IMO the thermostat is the restriction as you have shown with the mod you posted photo of.

By the way I did a lot of coolant testing for OMC and it was incorporated into the 3.3 blocks. IMO temp under the plug while useful does not tell the whole story.

Yes Gordon has done a lot of work to make power on these engines, Stan I am not so sure of other than he use to call me often.

Problem with leaving the DFI head is the head was not designed for a non DFI induction system and the deepth/squish are not ideal for power or rpm, also the short rod is hard on pistons when rpm is raised.

Respectfully,
Alan Stoker

I couldn't agree more and one guy here did the mod using the same 3.3L stock heads and he used 10 gallons less fuel on his fishing trip and the engine gained a 1,000 more rpm....the longer rods and a raised piston pin height is the way to go...what were they thinking by using the shorter rods?????...maybe it was the Kool-aid I did see in the advertisement on the Ficht 200-250 HP outboards that they mentioned that the shorter rod made less piston side loading and better performance ...again Kool-Aid

[racer]

Shorter rod changes dwell time at BDC and TDC thus changing detonation characteristics. The new G2 engine has a version of the long rod.

[Instigator]

Yep if they don't sell what you want make it..

Bad ass Dave.

Um, and last I checked, the 3.0, 3.3 (a 3.0 w/bigger sleeves), and 3.4s (3.3 sleeves w/a stroker crank) are the same block, less minor upgrades through various yrs.

They never made a carbureted 300 hp carbureted V-6.

A 300 E-Tec only makes 276 (?) HPs. Bolting big bores (from a '1986 2.7 liter GT/XP 200 V-6) ain't going to make anywhere near 350 HPs.
That is one in my avatar. I used OEM pistons and cut .200" off the top of them, thereby removing the dish. Big bore carbs and heads from same vintage as carbs.
Maybe 300 on a good day.

I started this thread for first hand advice, not theories, and to help those like minded individuals make less mistakes while trying to make our tractor motors run.
Your tricks on cooling are well taken and appreciated but please don't waste 3 pages telling us how smart you are.
If you don't know who racer is you need to research it before debating with him on issues. We are lucky and gifted to have him interject into our hillbilly discussions please be conscious of who others may be posting on this thread.
There are several in the last few pages that have thousands of hours of R&D on these issues.
I used to live a half hour from Monty and was there every couple weeks and had lunch with him on a regular basis.
I have run his pistons in my long rod hot rod 3.3 which had fully programmable EFI a custom shortened midsection with a mercury bolt pattern so I could run a sport master gear case which I changed to 1.62 gears.
I know who the good ones are. Please don't mess this up for us.

Thank you. Gary

[Performance Unlimited]

Gary-
I posted first hand facts not theories on what reamers do whether used dry or with liquid and the response back was the feed rate and speed makes a difference also..... the reamed hole will not be a round hole and that is an undeniable fact unless the hole is honed and that would be a tedious process for a high speed jet, so the comment I made is factual and I left it to each their own and if someone else wants to do it another way ...more power to them...there are more than one way to skin a cat; however not all of the methods are the correct way or the best in doing machining or assembly for that matter. ..unless one is a machinist they do not know or really care how it is done and if one does not know the 'number', then the effort is all in vain.

Wasted 3 pages really??? I do not have to prove anything and I was just sharing some facts as some others do...too bad you got offended because a newbie on here has more knowledge than you and posted out factual comments....so telling me not to mess it up is your way of telling me that you do not want to hear the facts. and what ever someone else might say is gospel...well I guess that way you will have a very slow learning curve.

I never mentioned they made a 300 hp carbureted V6.... go back and re-read and comprehend what I posted about modifying a 3.3L for the 350 HP and be reliable.

Have a built up 300+ hp 3.0 Liter that has been running strong for 10 yrs as well.

Here is a factual article to share...so be careful it is only a theory in your eyes, so this will not get messed up... tell the guys in the bottom right corner of the article that they are full of it.....

[racer]

Come on guys lets not let this get out of hand. I think clarifications might help. One is you cant just bolt carbs on a 3.4 unless you build a manifold or install a carb/ficht front half which will run but will not make 300HP with stock porting and DFI heads but again 350 is very doable with the right parts.

We all have our way of doing things that some may agree or disagree with. What I was saying on rpm and feed rate is that they can change out come of a machining process.

My choice for reamers is based on 2 things one better match to factory and on advise of a aerospace machinest with 40 years experience. I also made it a habit to always verify hole sizes in jets prior to installation a practice that I feel is not followed by many.

I can also say I rented dyno time to many people that left disappointed in the actual power they were making.

[Instigator]

Gary-
I posted first hand facts not theories on what reamers do whether used dry or with liquid and the response back was the feed rate and speed makes a difference also..... the reamed hole will not be a round hole and that is an undeniable fact unless the hole is honed and that would be a tedious process for a high speed jet, so the comment I made is factual and I left it to each their own and if someone else wants to do it another way ...more power to them...there are more than one way to skin a cat; however not all of the methods are the correct way or the best in doing machining or assembly for that matter. ..unless one is a machinist they do not know or really care how it is done and if one does not know the 'number', then the effort is all in vain.

Wasted 3 pages really??? I do not have to prove anything and I was just sharing some facts as some others do...too bad you got offended because a newbie on here has more knowledge than you and posted out factual comments....so telling me not to mess it up is your way of telling me that you do not want to hear the facts. and what ever someone else might say is gospel...well I guess that way you will have a very slow learning curve.

I never mentioned they made a 300 hp carbureted V6.... go back and re-read and comprehend what I posted about modifying a 3.3L for the 350 HP and be reliable.

Have a built up 300+ hp 3.0 Liter that has been running strong for 10 yrs as well.

Here is a factual article to share...so be careful it is only a theory in your eyes, so this will not get messed up... tell the guys in the bottom right corner of the article that they are full of it.....

No, you said "300 Hp carburetors".
What 300 hp?

I did not read or care about your feed rate discussion.

I gave u the benifit if the doubt but now telling me you're smarter than me?
Really? You probably are.


Go away.
Start your own thread to educate us on your prowes with OMC loopers.

[powerabout]

How much horsepower do we guess a 3.3 with carb front and carb heads will make untouched?
Can you convert it back to carb ignition as well?

[Performance Unlimited]

]come on guys lets not let this get out of hand. I think clarifications might help.[/COLOR] one is you cant just bolt carbs on a 3.4 unless you build a manifold or install a carb/ficht front half which will run but will not make 300hp with stock porting and dfi heads but again 350 is very doable with the right parts.

we all have our way of doing things that some may agree or disagree with. What i was saying on rpm and feed rate is that they can change out come of a machining process.

My choice for reamers is based on 2 things one better match to factory and on advise of a aerospace machinest with 40 years experience. I also made it a habit to always verify hole sizes in jets prior to installation a practice that i feel is not followed by many.

I can also say i rented dyno time to many people that left disappointed in the actual power they were making.

Bolting on mid bore carbs onto a 3.3L (I never mentioned 3.4L) and changing the electronics will get you 300 ponies...do the port work, rods, pistons and different heads it will easily be 350 ponies not a theory.....

[Performance Unlimited]

No, you said "300 Hp carburetors".
What 300 hp?

I did not read or care about your feed rate discussion.

I gave u the benifit if the doubt but now telling me you're smarter than me?
Really? You probably are.


Go away.
Start your own thread to educate us on your prowes with OMC loopers.

geeees someone really needed a 2017 therapy puppy and they were out of stock!

[racer]

ok a 3.3 ficht block with mid bore carbs and carb ignition with stock dfi heads and pistons will not make 300hp with stock porting and yes I tried it. I agree 350 is not an issue with the right parts and porting.

By the way I was clarifying for those on the board that don't know you can't just bolt carbs on a 3.3 or 3.4 e-tec.

Post 113 270 to 275 and yes

[Instigator]

geeees someone really needed a 2017 therapy puppy and they were out of stock!

So when I vaporize this thread how will you make yourself famous ass hole?

Oh yeah, w/threads on all your projects right?

[H2OPERF]

Performance unlimited please look at instigators join date and post count and show some respect where due, he has been on here since day one.. built 3 wild motors, frankenrude I,II,III posting every detail and pic all the way thru the builds.. I'm sure hes read the 300hp article so many times he could re-write it from memory and knows all the top builders you have noted personally. Just-sayin show some respect,when you get 16000( geez Gary 16000) post you can talk smack.. hes been there and done it... not just a bs keyboard wizard, though he's pretty good with puters, this aint the place to throw big numbers around if you haven't built and driven it yourself.. 350hp isn't that easy 400hp is attainable not as easy as some might think.. reliable ehh..Dave

[Performance Unlimited]

Performance unlimited please look at instigators join date and post count and show some respect where due, he has been on here since day one.. built 3 wild motors, frankenrude I,II,III posting every detail and pic all the way thru the builds.. I'm sure hes read the 300hp article so many times he could re-write it from memory and knows all the top builders you have noted personally. Just-sayin show some respect,when you get 16000( geez Gary 16000) post you can talk smack.. hes been there and done it... not just a bs keyboard wizard, though he's pretty good with puters, this aint the place to throw big numbers around if you haven't built and driven it yourself.. 350hp isn't that easy 400hp is attainable not as easy as some might think.. reliable ehh..Dave

So when I vaporize this thread how will you make yourself famous ass hole?

Oh yeah, w/threads on all your projects right?

I never disrespected anyone nor called anyone names and if the kettle is black so be it...I show respect to everyone and when someone starts babbling and doesn’t even have a clue to the facts that I have posted and telling me that I shouldn’t be debating a method that someone has done for years shouldn’t be calling me derogatory names, then that person(s) (in this case Gary) is being disrespectful and that individual is not showing any respect for those that share factual info and I am not going to sugar coat anything as some do on here.

It does not matter how long one has been a member or how many posts they have posted nor how long they have been doing something doesn't mean they are doing it correctly and I pointed some of that out and also mentioned to each their own....if an aero machinist was working with racer and being more concerned about a drill leaving a swirl mark and never mentioning about the different aspects of reaming and reamers leave a hole with many flat spots regardless what reaming method is used, then the full disclosure of information of reaming was missing and he was misinformed...does it matter in the outcome whether a jet is drilled or reamed probably not, and I mentioned to each their own, so I have been respectful towards others…. so the one stirring the pot and is doing all the Screaming and Crying is Gary=> the ass hole and not me.

If he is a man of integrity he can delete his negativity from this thread and the comebacks that I have posted in response to him I will delete and this thread will have the good information focused on what he has started without any negativity or harsh debate. If he wants to vaporize this thread that is his choice also…either way he has shown his true colors and only he can man-up.

[H2OPERF]

Well that's not what I expected sooo... Have A Good Day Sir.