Can i use bust prop as a test prop

[BarryStrawn]

We need a "dislike this post" for such displays of ignorance and arrogance.

[phillnjack]

Me being in England I also understand how expensive it is to get stuff from the usa to the uk. postage then import duty then import tax then vat Grrr.
there has been so much stuff and boats I would of bought if I could of got them here at reasonable cost..
and being as your up there in bonnie Scotland, every penny saved goes towards the save the Haggis rescue fund ( Christmas booze up ) ha ha .

you should make yourself a simple balancer, dead easy from old scrap stuff lying about, and be surprised how bad some props are straight out the box.

[spybot]

Hey Phil if i knew how to make one i would.
How does this sound. If you need stuff from the usa and i need stuff why dont we buy from the same place and halve the postage ?
How long did you have the bikini ?

[phillnjack]

only had the Bikini a year, spent a couple of months sprucing it up and getting like new, then used it on a lake a couple of times.
was going to keep it but then tried it out on the coast !!!! disaster, they realy dont like rough water, they were realy meant for lakes.
the bounty was the better boat for sea use, handles totally different.
I think the Bikini was/is a lovely looking boat, nice and wide for their size, pretty stable at rest for a v-hull too.
run it on a lake and it was great and a pretty fast design for its time not bad on river Thames neither ha ah
if it had handled good on the sea I would of never got rid of it, as most of my running used to be down the south coast.

[spybot]

I got mine last may bought as a perfect boat he guy said it looked nice so i bought it. Once i got it home put her in the sea. I stay right on the north sea. As we slid her off the trailer i saw something sticking through the passenger side floor. Put her back n the trailer lifted the seat and saw the head of a 4" screw straight through and out the hull
Spent the next week ripping all the floor our everything rotted it must have been like that for years. So she has a brand new floor from hull to stringers ect ect I was going to take her in the sea but found Loch Tummel so thats where she is all year round. 2 weekends ago we were ut at the far end of the loch then the wind got up. About 1 meter wabes on a loch
So it was a bang bang ride home lol She defo doesnt like the white horses.
I will be keeping her as long as i can. They look really nice and the loch im on bans the "jet ski mob" so i can potter around at half throttle then hammer down and frighten the mrs lol

[phillnjack]

sounds perfect place to enjoy the boat.
we dont have any lakes down in the south that will let you on, the private ones are so expensive and have waiting lists.

[71V153]

I'd like Phillnjack a lot better if'n his avatar wasn't my prop ...

Just sayin ...

[71V153]

Btw I had my boys at Burris hammer it into a 25 ...

[MattGreen]

Sorry matt green , but I think your slightly mis-informed, it is completely understandable to speak like you do because you have
fallen into the ( drum roll) "special tool trap" like so many others have done and will carry on doing as long as we breath.,
I bet you have even been under the hypnotic spell of the Snap-On man too , with his shiny RED tool boxes and super smooth shiny spanners !!!!
Sometimes their spells are a bit weak and can only (blue) point you to the cheaper "special offer" section..

( I think we get music played to us that we can only subconsciously hear, with words like "shiny big red boxes" or "shiny wrenches " ).

I have honestly heard people walk into workshops and say " he must know what he is doing, look at the tools "..... no it realy means he is a mug.
he has been duped into paying out around 10 times more than he needed to.



now back to the serious stuff and this topic.
we all know there can be a huge difference between a prop that comes brand new in a box, than the prop that gets a proper finish. ? Yes .
The brand new in a box prop is not as true as some might think, its a bit out of balance and not even each blade the same pitch, this is
not just on cheapo props, but also on expensive props too.
mercury for example sell a very expensive prop and then have the cheek and audacity to offer a special service to make it good and true ?
So please explain to me how they sell the test wheels so cheap compared to top of the line props that have to be extra worked to be so good.
to make a test wheel and have it the quality of a pro finish prop would be very hard, very time consuming and extremely expensive.
the finish on 99.9% of test wheels is not that good, look at the blades or vanes as they would be called on such a device, they are not perfect.
Look for the casting marks on these wheels , again not so perfect. nothing at all like a technical precision instrument. ( not the ones I have seen)

I wonder what would happen if we were to weigh the test wheels and then check for things like balance and although very hard check for the pitch .
this would then chuck a spanner right into the works as no way are these going to all be identical 100%.

In theory the special test wheel seems a perfect solution, until you actually break down what it realy is.
A test wheel is a metal casting that gives a load on the prop to roughly simulate what strain the motor might be put under.
Never any mention of using a different wheel for different weight of boat applications or styles of boat.

well that in itself just proves the special test wheel is not such an exact precision item. the hp variance for each wheel is also pretty wide.

this now brings us back to the using a old battered prop as a test wheel to get a fella's engine in the ball park.
he is not going to be under laboratory conditions, he just wants his motor to be near enough, just like the rest of us hope to do.

near enough is good enough when it comes to testing in a tank, because a tank test is nothing like the real thing, never will be.

I am not saying dont use the correct wheel specified, I am saying you can get away with using what is available to get it in the ball park.


its just my opinion... and its worked ok for me

lol PnJ, I really get a kick out of your posts, I laughed so hard I dropped my iPad on the floor.
I don't have time to poke holes in all your arguments, suffice to say that the fact that you think you know more about diagnostic tools than the engineers in OMC and Bombardier's service departments says it all. ETEC service manuals continue to specify test props......

And I never said there was anything wrong with using a cut down prop for applying a load. It actually sounds like a great way to set WOT timing actually.

Matt

P.S. Yes I have lots of Snap On tools, lots of OMC factory special tools too - good tools make it easier and more efficient to do a quality job. Or perhaps I'm just retarded right ? Lol .....

[mn808gade]

back a few years,when the then New black EFI engines hit the shores of the Parker stretch,one of the then" secret" race motors hit the drink.the factory boys in the white shop uniforms dried it out and backed it into the little ramp I used to camp next to for about 20+ yrs.after bout 20-30 min.s of run time,the rpm's were raised with a little adjustment to race motor specs and after a little while all tecs faces turned to smiles and the boat was pulled out of the river.I on the other hand wanted to see just what was tightened on the prop shaft,if I remember right looked like 5/16 or 3/8ths flat alum plate.had a coupla small alum pieces bolted at opposite sides and that was about all.when I got back to westshore of Tahoe I went to library in Tahoe City and looked up waterbrake.just more of learning process completed.-th PS maybe some of the merc team from that day are current S&F members??-th

[BarryStrawn]

back a few years,when the then New black EFI engines hit the shores of the Parker stretch,one of the then" secret" race motors hit the drink.the factory boys in the white shop uniforms dried it out and backed it into the little ramp I used to camp next to for about 20+ yrs.after bout 20-30 min.s of run time,the rpm's were raised with a little adjustment to race motor specs and after a little while all tecs faces turned to smiles and the boat was pulled out of the river.I on the other hand wanted to see just what was tightened on the prop shaft,if I remember right looked like 5/16 or 3/8ths flat alum plate.had a coupla small alum pieces bolted at opposite sides and that was about all.when I got back to westshore of Tahoe I went to library in Tahoe City and looked up waterbrake.just more of learning process completed.-th PS maybe some of the merc team from that day are current S&F members??-th

The ssm type race lowers use test wheels that are mostly just a flat disc. Sometimes with a pattern of holes. Guys with red toolboxes full of snapon tools use them.

[phillnjack]

ahh mattgreen

Lets delve into your side of the argument, I noticed a bit of dodgy information in your argument for "special tools" as recommended by "THE FACTORY"
I shall now quote a simple passage you wrote that realy helps you see my side of things, and dont forget it was you who wrote this not me.

" .I don't have time to poke holes in all your arguments, suffice to say that the fact that you think you know more about diagnostic tools than the engineers in OMC and Bombardier's service departments says it all. ETEC service manuals continue to specify test props "


without going into a mega long epic about the cock up's at OMC and fools tools, I just ask you this
are these the same super intelligent beings you talk about, the same people who sent out thousands of outboards all over the world that
were supposed to be the best things ever to burn 2 stroke fuel.
the ultimate in reliability and longevity, super clean, super quiet and super smooth, the mother of all outboards, motors, that will be cheap to
service and give you long intervals of trouble free boating, built by the best technicians ever seen at OMC, built with state of the art machinery
and built by experts ?

is it not a fact that this marvel of the combustion engine built by these were known as FICHT..?

and you put trust in the opinion of these people not to rip you off

[BarryStrawn]

And another display of ignorance and arrogance.

[MattGreen]

ahh mattgreen

Lets delve into your side of the argument, I noticed a bit of dodgy information in your argument for "special tools" as recommended by "THE FACTORY"
I shall now quote a simple passage you wrote that realy helps you see my side of things, and dont forget it was you who wrote this not me.

" .I don't have time to poke holes in all your arguments, suffice to say that the fact that you think you know more about diagnostic tools than the engineers in OMC and Bombardier's service departments says it all. ETEC service manuals continue to specify test props "


without going into a mega long epic about the cock up's at OMC and fools tools, I just ask you this
are these the same super intelligent beings you talk about, the same people who sent out thousands of outboards all over the world that
were supposed to be the best things ever to burn 2 stroke fuel.
the ultimate in reliability and longevity, super clean, super quiet and super smooth, the mother of all outboards, motors, that will be cheap to
service and give you long intervals of trouble free boating, built by the best technicians ever seen at OMC, built with state of the art machinery
and built by experts ?

is it not a fact that this marvel of the combustion engine built by these were known as FICHT..?

and you put trust in the opinion of these people not to rip you off

PnJ that is not a logical argument. Introducing Ficht issues is a tangent that has absolutely nothing to do with special service tools. Note that I specifically stated "service engineers", not "design engineers".
With your apparent reluctance to consider purchasing any service tools, I'm interested in how you world diagnose and service a trim-n-tilt unit, shim a gearcase after replacing gears or shafts, or diagnose erratic ignition issues ? There are specific service tools that make these tasks relatively straightforward if you follow the manual. I bet with enough concentration somebody like you could even accomplish it.

Matt

[spybot]

Gentlemen Please look at it this way you both are correct ( Phill )Made Do you are only using it to get a ball park figure it is not a bang on test after test. (Matt) buy the correct tool you will need it.
Both of these arguments are correct. If i was faultfinding on my motor and the only way to save it was to buy a proper wheel then i would weigh up the cost of a wheel and see if its worth it. But i will always find a DIY version of a tool if i can. Its bad enough the mrs going crazy about the amount of time and fuel that i use on the boat never mind me saying hey honey "hey look at Jet screwdriver it was only $30 plus Tax Plus Shipping. Over here in the UK things you guys see on eBay.com cost us almost double with tax and courier. Have a look at ebay.co.uk if you want to point us to some cheap tools.