Yelling & Flapping Our Wings ...

**brocluno** · 11-04-2016, 04:21 PM

OK, so I get that the site is for Real FAST boats. Gotta love 'em. Nothing like hittin the century mark, catching big air

But, I'm wondering if we can have a forum for guys and gals getting started that just want to get into the Mile-A-Minute club? That seems to be a big step on the way to screamin and flyin

It gets into all phases of rigging and tune, set-up and set back, prop selection, chine walk, all the rest - just at a lower intensity. Maybe a place for newby's to post issues as they try to get above 45 MPH and start ridin on the back 1/3 of the hull ...

Of course I'm biased as that's where I am with one project. But it seems that there could be a forum for folks sneaking up on FAST...

It's one thing to be talking about choppers and cleavers and racing lowers with the shaft even with the pad. But, some of us aren't quite there yet. So what can be done with Vee Bottoms and OEM lowers? How would you re-do a family boat that's moving up the speed ladder?

**pointer** · 11-04-2016, 04:35 PM

Start posting the questions! Make sure to state boat, motor and current prop particulars, and what your true goal is. There is a wealth of knowledge visiting this site every day, make the most of it. If you want to squeeze a few more mph, and are willing to try a few suggestions you'll likely achieve your goal, and learn a lot along the way. If you want to double your speed, not spend a nickel, and still be able to haul the kids on the tube most likely you will get a reality check.

So, watcha got?

pointer

**brocluno** · 11-04-2016, 04:50 PM

My project is here: http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-a-new-Hot-Rod

But when I was using the search function for stuff, I kept coming across discussions where folks trying to make their boats go faster and getting all sideways with their set-up. Some were starting in the 30 MPH area and trying ventilated props and jacking up the motors to where they couldn't get a hole shot, etc.

Point being these discussions were in all sorts of threads and forums. And my suspicion is that they get kinda randomly answered if the title is catchy... But, it's also my suspicion that a lot of time they don't get answered by the folks who may have been in that exact same spot/boat and worked out what did work ...

Yeah, I know I ain't goinna go 60 w/o effort. But it is nice to have a dedicated hull (now) so we can back off on the family boats and make them real kid/grandkid/wife friendly. We now have a "guy" hull, and as soon as we fire the motor, we'll know if we have motive power... If not, we'll be looking for other motivation. Lot's of 2-strokes around. Even some big ones pretty cheap

Now to re-stamp the build plate ... You think 250 is too much for a 1970's hull ID

**Mr. Demeanor** · 11-04-2016, 09:47 PM

I was on here for a long time with a 55 mph boat.

**coffeeguy** · 11-05-2016, 05:49 AM

There is so much information in the archives and so many people willing to help the speed of the boat is irrelevant. You just have to decide what applies for your boat and motor . For set up read, read ,read on set-ups for your hull or similar styles. For mechanical there is so much experience willing to help almost anything can be solved.

**Bodhi** · 11-05-2016, 06:49 AM

Not sure why you'd need a separate forum to get your questions answered. If you have a setup, hull build, or mechanical question...just post it and it'll get answered by numerous people with knowledge. Yes most on here have fast rigs, but almost all of us including myself have family boats, fishin boats, flats boats.....hell even dinghys

**brocluno** · 11-05-2016, 07:39 AM

OK, I get all that. Was just thinking (and posting) about a "Starter Forum", but you'all have made the case. Yes there is lots of knowledge, and yes you'all are generous with your time and knowledge. So I'll follow the consensus

Was just an idea about a place, where after a few dozen threads, there would emerge a planning and progression path. Prolly many different hull types and motor combos would show up. But I'll bet dollars to donuts that it would turn out the starting route would coalesce around a common progression to get up to speed

For instance, I did a bunch of searches for "Ventilated Prop" and could not find a good discussion. Seems over hub exhaust is sort of expected to be understood by the time a person gets here...

I did find a long and wacky discussion on a naval architecture/design site involving some old racers and some "slide rule" types. I could follow both side and they were talking past each other mostly ... The racers were talking induced camber and profile mod's being hammered in over a trailer ball and/or anvil while the slide-rule guys talking load differentials... Neither side mentioned lab'd props ...

I know this is sort of black arts stuff on the high end as racers do not want to give away what's working for them. But how about the basics of the subject ... Which forum is best to ask in?

**loop** · 11-05-2016, 08:40 AM

IMHO
going 90 in a boat that everyone knows and expects to run 90 is fun.
going 60 in a boat that nobody expects to run over 50 is infinitely more satisfying especially when done on the cheap

**mjw930** · 11-05-2016, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by loop

IMHO
going 90 in a boat that everyone knows and expects to run 90 is fun.
going 60 in a boat that nobody expects to run over 50 is infinitely more satisfying especially when done on the cheap

Very true HOWEVER, every hull has a design speed, a speed at which lift, stability and strength all work together to make for a safe, stable ride. Even if the design of the hull will work at certain speeds, the materials used and the layup schedule needs to be able to withstand the hydrodynamic forces. In addition, there's the condition of the hull and transom that's needs to be taken into account.

For this particular build I would absolutely find someone who is qualified to give the boat the once or twice over and make sure the condition and build can withstand the beating it will take at 60+. As satisfying as it may be to push the envelope it's equality as devastating if something bad happens. On a boat this age with that many holes in the transom it's highly likely there's significant rot. If it were mine I would make rebuilding and strengthening the transom job 1 then move on from there. It's definitely not a "bolt a motor on and go fast" build IMHO but done right the results can be very rewarding.

**pointer** · 11-05-2016, 09:01 AM

So you get lost in the techie jargon searching topics, yeah that happens here, just like every other site for hi performance anything. And, yes there are often opposing views, and sometimes even some good old fashioned ribbing (just ask the bunny).
My main boat is a serious compromise, flat floor for a wheeler, 100 lb propane tanks, fishing in the spring, camp runs & waterski all summer, and then duck hunt till the ice shuts us out. It doesn't do any of those things the best, but is does them all OK. The very best I've seen it run it high 30s. It isn't a high performance anything, but have done a few things to it to optimize performance.
This forum is probably your best bet to post your questions. Say what hull, engine, prop your running and say what you intended purpose is, and ask away. If it gets too techie, ask for explanations. Every one on here had to start somewhere, and most are extremely helpful.

Post away!

pointer

**loop** · 11-05-2016, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by mjw930

Very true HOWEVER, every hull has a design speed, a speed at which lift, stability and strength all work together to make for a safe, stable ride. Even if the design of the hull will work at certain speeds, the materials used and the layup schedule needs to be able to withstand the hydrodynamic forces. In addition, there's the condition of the hull and transom that's needs to be taken into account.

For this particular build I would absolutely find someone who is qualified to give the boat the once or twice over and make sure the condition and build can withstand the beating it will take at 60+. As satisfying as it may be to push the envelope it's equality as devastating if something bad happens. On a boat this age with that many holes in the transom it's highly likely there's significant rot. If it were mine I would make rebuilding and strengthening the transom job 1 then move on from there. It's definitely not a "bolt a motor on and go fast" build IMHO but done right the results can be very rewarding.

was just making a general statement about how rewarding a semi fast boat can be. There is TONS of info on this site about every aspect of hi performance boating. Anyone new to this type of boating should research it thoroughly

**Li'l Toy** · 11-05-2016, 12:57 PM

Heck there is a thread right now usually near the top of General Boating Discussion started by a guy with a flat bottom Glen-L Stilletto (built from plans). Don't recall the power, but I think a v4 OMC. He is right at 60 now if I recall after a lot of help from forum members, and still dealing with porpoise. You have some of the best people in the country on this sight (and some yae-hoos) who will freely jump in with ideas. You might want to read that thread, not so much for specific ideas but to see what people are looking for and what ideas they suggested.

I repeat what someone said above--make sure your transom is solid before making the boat pretty, much less hanging a motor on it. And, if the hull has core, check that also. Many, many older boats have soft transoms because folks just did not know to properly seal abandoned holes, letting water penetrate to the wood inside which would rot the wood. Once you have the hull ready and the motor ready, many people here will help you with prop, height, balance etc.

**Euroski** · 11-05-2016, 01:07 PM

I'm retired from the 100mph+ club! Just gets too scary

**brocluno** · 11-05-2016, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Li'l Toy

Heck there is a thread right now usually near the top of General Boating Discussion started by a guy with a flat bottom Glen-L Stilletto (built from plans). Don't recall the power ...

It's OMC IIIRC ... I read that one front to back.

Yeah, I get the "nobody expected that from that old girl" thingy. That's the plan. Leave it looking a little ragged, faded and forlorn and just try to keep up. We have a build plan. 2-bucket seats near centerline. Throttle and shift on centerline so either can easily reach. Same for trim/tilt. Already has speedo and tach on centerline, or close enough.

New steering. Mueller tank (already have from other build) strapped in back there. Biggish battery because the OMC's constant charge will kill small ones... Thinking jack plate, but don't know yet. Will definitely build the transom to do the work. Yeah, it has some punky holes ...

Most lakes around here have speed limits (50 is common). The Bay and rivers do not

I've been out on the bay and had Arneson pass me like I was parked... I don't need to play in that league at all...

Been boating since I was 12 or so and I'm well into social security now. My boat bud is still raising kids. We both have family boats in the 40+ range. So the wives are happy to see us search for speed elsewhere.

Was going to build a BBC flattie to tow behind his BBC 55 Chevy coupe. But this came along cheap and I can tow it behind the '70 Buick GS when that's running again

Of course we have pick-ups and 4x4's for non-show tows

I like sleepers and sand-baggers. Most folks have no idea how quick my Sportster is

When we're done, hopefully they'll have no idea how quick this is either.. Evinrude 85 or 88 cowl on the 140 bubble back is in the plan

My first and foremost question is: With a Glastron/Tahiti/Sidewinder/Kona (et all) Vee Bottom at 16~17 ft - what's the basic starting place for the AV-Cav Plate relative to the bottom/keel line?

We'll be running through hub exhaust and prolly good used Michigan Wheel SS cupped 3-blades to start with. Should I calc the lowest transom bolt position to be Plate + 1" above keel line? Or should I start higher?

**eli** · 11-05-2016, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by brocluno

My project is here: http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-a-new-Hot-Rod

But when I was using the search function for stuff, I kept coming across discussions where folks trying to make their boats go faster and getting all sideways with their set-up. Some were starting in the 30 MPH area and trying ventilated props and jacking up the motors to where they couldn't get a hole shot, etc.

Point being these discussions were in all sorts of threads and forums. And my suspicion is that they get kinda randomly answered if the title is catchy... But, it's also my suspicion that a lot of time they don't get answered by the folks who may have been in that exact same spot/boat and worked out what did work ...

Yeah, I know I ain't goinna go 60 w/o effort. But it is nice to have a dedicated hull (now) so we can back off on the family boats and make them real kid/grandkid/wife friendly. We now have a "guy" hull, and as soon as we fire the motor, we'll know if we have motive power... If not, we'll be looking for other motivation. Lot's of 2-strokes around. Even some big ones pretty cheap

Now to re-stamp the build plate ... You think 250 is too much for a 1970's hull ID

if your going to take that boat to 100 god bless and see you in heaven