Bosch Fuel Injectors

**PanRonnie** · 03-07-2016, 06:47 AM

i think he meant the multi hole injectors
as to why mercury went with crankcase injection?
don,t know about that
maybe to put the oil straight in the bearings , maybe to cool the bearings , maybe to use the heat from the beartings to evaporate the fuel better
the proffesor from the this sae site likes to inject on a hot inlet valve stem just after it closes with a pencil stream injector ( narrow cone)
to maximise evaporation
http://training.sae.org/eseminars/pd130701on/

on F1 engines they like to put the injector as far away as possible
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**powerabout** · 03-07-2016, 07:31 AM

injecting into the combustion chamber is the go but you need to have very good atomisation to get to all mixed and burnt in time.
Thats how the etec produces 50% less CO than a 4 stroke from idle to mid range, no fuel touches metal before its goes bang.
I see the new etec sled has a better bsfc than the 4 strokes now.....

**Chaz** · 03-07-2016, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by PanRonnie

i think he meant the multi hole injectors
as to why mercury went with crankcase injection?
don,t know about that
maybe to put the oil straight in the bearings , maybe to cool the bearings , maybe to use the heat from the beartings to evaporate the fuel better

Ronnie , many thanks for the translation ...

The so called multi-hole injector still has one pintle valve and one orifice . No matter if it's a standard lift or bottom opening wedge that emit's a fan spray. An injector that has "diffuser" covering the exit would have to be the worst of all. Just like the "diffuser screen" in the nozzle of my kitchen sink. At low lifts , it's fairly ineffective , finds a sweet spot somewhere in the middle and becomes the new orifice restriction at max flow . Might have a place if your sole focus is on making the tree huggers @ CARB happy ...

Perhaps I'm a dinosaur ...

But what better place to inject fuel/oil in a two stroke , but the crankcase . The reeds stop fuel standoff . The bearings get first hand oiling . The blender running laps keeps the fuel chopped up. For those worried about the phenomena of "Latent heat of Vaporization" there is plenty of time to phase change the fuel into vapor , and maybe even enough to cool the incoming air enough to change some of the charge back into a liquid and fall out of suspension .... good thing it lives in a blender ....

Only down side I see , is some will get out the exhaust port . When and if I start worrying about gas mileage , I'll buy a sail boat ...

the proffesor from the this sae site likes to inject on a hot inlet valve stem just after it closes with a pencil stream injector ( narrow cone)
to maximise evaporation
http://training.sae.org/eseminars/pd130701on/

on F1 engines they like to put the injector as far away as possible

American's for the most part have traditionally kept fuel on the downstream side of the throttle blades . NOS had a "Top Shot" kit that was above the carburetor . GM had those horrendous two hole throttle bodies that dribbled the fuel down onto the blades ... Neither were liked very well and didn't last long in the market place .
I think we can catch $hiz on fire easy enough without putting fuel in at a location where we cant close the throttle and shut off the air to the fire ... dumb idea , even if it makes power . Take a stroll thru the burn ward , you'll throw up before you get back to the car.
This photo has got to be a few years old . This manifold only has 4 guns ( nitrous kits ) ...

Most of the new PDRA Pro Nitrous cars have 5 - 6 systems for 2016
What they have done is add another to the plenum and another on the bottom side of the runner . Plenum is usually first and the biggest , then they add the smaller runner mounted kits as the chassis will accept the power. Some say it doesn't matter which order they stack . Other's say the top because of a time element and others say it somewhat seals off the port entrance and at that point , the carbs are mostly just along for the ride ...

High , low , crankcase , direct injection , multiplexdemodulator , Smokey's adiabatic system .. what's the best overall ?
I don't think we have stumbled across it yet . Maybe we have and it's been suppressed.
I know we are pretty lucky . Hard to remember , but I believe the last road going two stroke motorcycle was the 1985 or 1986 RZ350 Yamaha . And it was burdened with catalytic converters .... I can only imagine the behind closed doors meetings that the N. American outboard mfg's had to put up with to keep the 2 stroke alive ....

http://www.speedtech-nitrous.com/upl...71352_orig.jpg

**powerabout** · 03-07-2016, 05:45 PM

all the new ones are multi hole
http://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-...ectors-974696/
https://spdbydesign.com/product/1050cc-bosch/
all the engines are also skipping this and going direct injection as well like the new GM LS

**Chaz** · 03-07-2016, 11:49 PM

Ya know Power , There's an old saying . You can put a new dress on a pig , she's still a pig ...

Did you miss the memo on diffuser's ... ?

Nothing really new in a ball type valve .. here's a real antique ...

I see you skipped quite a bit of relative information , here's the best thing I can tell ya .
While I don't know much about Mazda's , I do know they are offensively obnoxious especially for how lethargically slow they are. Other than that , no one makes a good bell housing for one . I was at Orlando Speedworld running in there Q-32 race at the Night of Fire a few years ago . A young Latin man was about 4-5 spots away giving his rotary the 20,000 rpm tune up . The flywheel ... well lets just say it looked like the Zapruder film ... while we were waiting on the ambulance to return from loading the DOA in the LifeStar .. yet another one of them things pulled in and started doing the same thing ... take it for what it's worth .

**powerabout** · 03-07-2016, 11:54 PM

Sure but try to buy a low z single squirt injector
they are going going gone for a reason.
somebody must have tried a new high z multiple spray on 280/300 surely or do they only work on the current f1 pack?

**powerabout** · 03-07-2016, 11:56 PM

Trouble is you need an injector flow bench that can also run your pack to test total volume.

**Chaz** · 03-08-2016, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by powerabout

Sure but try to buy a low z single squirt injector
they are going going gone for a reason.
somebody must have tried a new high z multiple spray on 280/300 surely or do they only work on the current f1 pack?

Even though I have more "pink tip" squirter's than I can use in my lifetime . I bought two set's of these for my big bore motors :
Stainless body's ,
5-6 more lbs/hr ( that's aprox 58 cc/min )

,
they are brand new ,
I'm on the "Pro Shop" deal ,
I get two "free" extra's on each set I buy ,
AMERICAN MADE ,
With Summit money behind them , they aint goin in the tank any time soon ...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-89055/overview/

powerabout

Trouble is you need an injector flow bench that can also run your pack to test total volume.

I see no need to reinvent the wheel . I drop off a set and a few extra's to the guy's at the injector clinic , they put a set together for me ... and down the road I go ... SIMPLE

They can do a dozen at a time , but since a 2 stroke V-6 is compartmentalized into 6 separate individual unit's .. once you blow some shizz thru 1 to get a value , then ... here comes some more math , multiply X 6 to get a total fuel load

All this is really basic stuff . If you want to come up to speed , Amazon sell's HP series books .. Dave Vizard is a good a place to start as any ...

**powerabout** · 03-08-2016, 06:25 AM

I was meaning if you convert from old to new injectors it would be wise to check you still get the same fuel for same input.

**powerabout** · 03-08-2016, 06:28 AM

Good tip on the summit injectors
is there an easy way to convert back to hose connection?
Cheers

**Chaz** · 03-08-2016, 09:08 AM

Since they are brand new , they were made that way . If you want a different model , Ronnie posted a location and price on the 280 type .

But if you insist on buying the wrong ones and converting them yourself , this would be a good place to start ...