Boring bar options for 3.0 litre mercs

**Chaz** · 12-12-2015, 02:59 PM

Having run a Kwik-Way 30 years ago , I just couldn't bring myself to buying a bar made in China , let alone one made in India where quite a bit of machinery production seem's to be shifting twords.
Before driving to Georgia and taking a chance of paying too much for a machine that parts were no longer made for ( we can always make our own )

I searched around and found that Irontite took over the valve grinder and flywheel turning machines and had some left over parts like stock type boring bits and drive belts . But for the most part everything went to Craig .
I asked Joe at Irontite what happened to an iconic company like Kwik-Way . He said that they were having a hard time getting good casting's for the main housing as well as other outside parts. Every year they ordered less and less volume. To the point where some vendors couldn't afford to deal with them . The tooling was old and pretty well worn , and no one was willing to reinvest is a dwindling market . He said they kept the two products they could produce and still make a profit , at least for the time being . Pretty sad , what we have done to our self's .
So next I spoke to Craig , he said he had gears , shaft's , bushings , bearings , feed screw's , pretty much anything I needed to get one up and running, even if it has been sitting for quite a while . It was nice to speak with someone who cares for these machines more so today , than when he started with the company three decades ago.
The big thing seem's to be the micrometer . Or course they are no longer available . Guys on flee-bay want 1K for one that's beat up . They usually sell the machine "missing a few tools" and then sell the gotta have it's later for a crazy price . Craig didnt have one at the time , but he said he sell's one that he true's the contact face and re-calibrates for $500.
The other thing is the "cat whiskers" that it takes to cover the 3 - 4.5 inch range . Three or four sets of three whiskers @ $100 ea whisker starts to add up pretty quick .
So I left for Georgia , expecting the worse , but was presently suprized to find a closed-up auto parts store straight out of the 60's . We had to look around , but found EVERYTHING . I paid the man what he was asking , swapped a few stories of days gone by and away I went . I couldn't help but look in the rear view mirror , glancing at the old gal , knowing she was built in a time when factory workers took pride in what they were making . Assemblers who took time to shim every tolerance perfectly , even if it meant pulling the unit apart more than once . Not worrying if the management team was going to pull them off the floor for " being incompetent" .
30 years ago , I didn't see any of that . I ran one because it was a way to make a pay check .. today , it's more like riding an old flathead , flying in a Piper Cub or being lucky enough to take a tour of Chris Carson's outboard museum room .... Perhaps that's why the Kwik-Way gods have entrusted me with such a fine specimen of an era gone by ..

**LongShot** · 12-12-2015, 05:05 PM

Any thoughts on an FT Kwik Way with all tooling?

**LongShot** · 12-12-2015, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Chaz

Having run a Kwik-Way 30 years ago , I just couldn't bring myself to buying a bar made in China , let alone one made in India where quite a bit of machinery production seem's to be shifting twords.
Before driving to Georgia and taking a chance of paying too much for a machine that parts were no longer made for ( we can always make our own )

I searched around and found that Irontite took over the valve grinder and flywheel turning machines and had some left over parts like stock type boring bits and drive belts . But for the most part everything went to Craig .
I asked Joe at Irontite what happened to an iconic company like Kwik-Way . He said that they were having a hard time getting good casting's for the main housing as well as other outside parts. Every year they ordered less and less volume. To the point where some vendors couldn't afford to deal with them . The tooling was old and pretty well worn , and no one was willing to reinvest is a dwindling market . He said they kept the two products they could produce and still make a profit , at least for the time being . Pretty sad , what we have done to our self's .
So next I spoke to Craig , he said he had gears , shaft's , bushings , bearings , feed screw's , pretty much anything I needed to get one up and running, even if it has been sitting for quite a while . It was nice to speak with someone who cares for these machines more so today , than when he started with the company three decades ago.
The big thing seem's to be the micrometer . Or course they are no longer available . Guys on flee-bay want 1K for one that's beat up . They usually sell the machine "missing a few tools" and then sell the gotta have it's later for a crazy price . Craig didnt have one at the time , but he said he sell's one that he true's the contact face and re-calibrates for $500.
The other thing is the "cat whiskers" that it takes to cover the 3 - 4.5 inch range . Three or four sets of three whiskers @ $100 ea whisker starts to add up pretty quick .
So I left for Georgia , expecting the worse , but was presently suprized to find a closed-up auto parts store straight out of the 60's . We had to look around , but found EVERYTHING . I paid the man what he was asking , swapped a few stories of days gone by and away I went . I couldn't help but look in the rear view mirror , glancing at the old gal , knowing she was built in a time when factory workers took pride in what they were making . Assemblers who took time to shim every tolerance perfectly , even if it meant pulling the unit apart more than once . Not worrying if the management team was going to pull them off the floor for " being incompetent" .
30 years ago , I didn't see any of that . I ran one because it was a way to make a pay check .. today , it's more like riding an old flathead , flying in a Piper Cub or being lucky enough to take a tour of Chris Carson's outboard museum room .... Perhaps that's why the Kwik-Way gods have entrusted me with such a fine specimen of an era gone by ..

Chaz I feel the connection to the Van Normans much the way you explain your fondness of the KW. I saw a picture with a jig made to carry I am thinking 20 777 VN's machining the wing spar of a B17 in a Boeing factory during WW2. They used the boring bars due to ruggedness, rigidity and simplicity. My dad worked in a salvage crew in the Army Air Corp in WW2 and I have a picture of him sitting on a downed B17 wing.....When you work on one of the bars and the craftsman who built it has scribed hand written numbers on the critical matching parts it reminds of you of how proud we were of what we made.

**LOSTINJ** · 12-12-2015, 05:42 PM

Great stuff , thanks to all that have responded!
Here are a few pics of my KW -FN that I paid 3 k for , hope I didn't pay too much !

**LongShot** · 12-12-2015, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by LOSTINJ

Great stuff , thanks to all that have responded!
Here are a few pics of my KW -FN that I paid 3 k for , hope I didn't pay too much !

Very nice. Is that a power hone in the background?? Got any diamond stones??

**LOSTINJ** · 12-12-2015, 07:07 PM

It is but it was sold for only 1400 a day before I bought this FN , Damn !!

**LongShot** · 12-12-2015, 08:05 PM

SHIITE! I needed that! On another note. I sat down and had a heart to heart session with my old 777s. The machine runs and cycles smoothly I just didn't have a set of matching expansion jaws. I had bought a lot of parts and pieces and went through the jaws and came up with a number 3 in good shape which is what I needed. Installed it in the correct position and all the other jaws got loose. Now this is against the cardinal rules that I had been told but since you can't find parts i decided I had to make this work. These things were supposedly set at the factory within .0005" . Anyway, I pulled all 4 jaws and miked them across their height. I measured both across the body and across the jaw including the "threads". Found the 3 out of the original set dead nuts. The replacement was .002" thicker. I used a lapping stone and dressed it down to the same dimension as the other three. Put them all back in and installed the #2 set of catspaws. Put a 1/4" ball bearing in the screw recess of the catspaws across from each other and miked them. Did the same for the other two. Factory tolerance is .003"......I ended up with .002"!!! Happy, happy, happy. Now does anyone have a quick and dirty set up on setting a dial indicator on the tool holder so I can double check my work??

**baja200merk** · 12-15-2015, 08:16 AM

Got my 777s for $380 on eBay

**LongShot** · 12-15-2015, 09:49 PM

Ordered tooling with carbide inserts today. Also found a Van Norman 777S micrometer. Just about to get back in the game. Does anyone besides Wiseco/Wizzard make a .044 over 2.5 piston? Haven't found a Pro or Vertex.

**LongShot** · 12-15-2015, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by baja200merk

Got my 777s for $380 on eBay

Can't complain. Both of mine were given to me many,many years ago. The legend Mr. Junior Eaves used them.

**baja200merk** · 12-15-2015, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by LongShot

Ordered tooling with carbide inserts today. Also found a Van Norman 777S micrometer. Just about to get back in the game. Does anyone besides Wiseco/Wizzard make a .044 over 2.5 piston? Haven't found a Pro or Vertex.

I think wsm makes a .044 might be a .040 tho. Don't forget you have to clearance the aluminum below the sleeve

**LongShot** · 12-17-2015, 10:18 AM

As luck would have it after spending several hours, good hours however, rubbing on this 777S, I got a reply from a gentleman on a machinery board where I had posted a WTB for a bar. He had a nice used 777S and a LIKE NEW 777 with the late style toolbit head. This thing was in a vocational school and he figures maybe 10 hours total on it. Sad part was tool kit was not with it. I had to have both of them so they are on the way. The newer one is a time capsule. I wonder when Kwik Way bought them out? Also wonder if Kwik Way built the VN's after purchasing or dropped the boring bar line completely.Anyway, I have another 1-1/4" Blanchard ground plate that I think I will set the new bar up on and after doing a starter hole on the B-port bolt the bar on the plate and use it to bore its own hole to access the block. Will do the Chris Carson thing with block bolted to bottom of plate using head bolt holes. I had been unable to do that with the old set up as I did not trust my bar to give me the exact size hole that I set my tooling for. The tool did not fit in the bar tightly and I had to shim it. Taking it in and out and shimming each time hurt repeatability..I took very light cuts and miked the cylinder after each cut. Hoping the new set up will me more precise and I can trust the tool micrometer.

**LongShot** · 12-17-2015, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by skeeter91

well here's mine.flip table(ground) makes mounting the blocks a snap.Attachment 332861 Attachment 332862 i made t.plates to fit xflows and mercs. im still working out the exact procedure for running it,but i got plenty of junk blocks to play with.so far its worked really well,just gotta put a new feed gear in the 777.

Skeeter are what are you using to pull the bar down onto your plate? Center bolt with a clamp up in the recess of the casting?

**Chaz** · 12-18-2015, 11:07 PM

Not sure about a FT model . And I have always really known a Van Norman as being a Winona .
Dayum shame that we can go from having every industrial factory in America having dozen's of them to where there was a mad scramble between Kwik-Way , Rottler and Winona to keep the portable boring bar alive in america. Only Rottler survived , and everything they make , is huge , heavy and has multi functions . Boring bar / line hone etc .
A friend of mine down in Royal Palm Beach fixes heavy equipment out in the field . He thinks nothing of hanging his bar up on the side of a bucket and boring out an oblong hole so he can make a new bushing and pin to put it back in service. I told him your gonna burn the gear box out of that fine piece of equipment layin it on it's side ... he said I guess you never looked at what direction the shafts went in them old Muncie's we use ta murder back in the day .. LOL
A machine shop I moonlight at , had a WVN surface grinder with either a big black rock or a toothed shell wheel. That was the straightest , smoothest overhead surfacing machine I have ever rolled the wheels on . What a gorgeous flawless finish it would lay down .. I would love to have it today as well as one of those huge belt sander's they do a poor boy cyl head finish with . Except for I'd use it for flattening out welded parts ... I've outgrown my 6 x 48 a long time ago ...

I guess I need to start hangin out at the LTOMC test center $380.00 borin bar .. go bouyyyyyy ..

Bout as close as I can get is ,
A few years back a guy called me and said he had a band saw he wanted $200 dollars for . No blades and needed new tires , but the wheels were tight and the motor run . So I gave him what he was asking . I bought a pair of those electric blue tires and had a dozen 9'3" blades made for it . I was kinda miffed at havin to buy custom blades , but it was big , old , ugly and made out of cast iron . I could push a piece of everything but stainless thru it as fast as i wanted . I figured I did OK . I was pretty shocked when one of the local restoration buffs offered me $2500 for it , even with the gaudy non period correct tires ... Seems a restored Walker / Turner saw will bring almost 5 K to the right collector ... who knew ..

Old , American and a 220 volt plug ... the only way to fly ....

**baja200merk** · 12-19-2015, 12:22 AM

Check ur phone in the am. Matt let me store a stone surfacer in my shop for the last 3 yrs I've never put power to it but the first head I do will be the ole 12v work truck. A buddy's warmed up fox body got a good look at the rear bumper the other night, I almost felt bad for the 200,000 mile head gasket @60psi. He said he was doing 115 when I drove by