Fastest SOB hull???

[Greg G]

it looks like that 820lbs is not correct, there a bracket on the transom which weighs about 55lbs, could that Nordic 21 boat really weigh under 800lbs ?

I guess one comparison would be your Tuff weighing 946 lbs on the scales. Your hull was fully "finished" so that would include .............

A. gauges, wiring, and rigging
B. your two gas tanks instead of the Nordic 21's single belly tank and maybe you had a little gas in your tank still and you have a transfer pump
C. I think you had removed your rear bench but I believe that both of your front seats were still installed when you weighed it?
D. carpeting and a final coat of gel/paint
E. steering wheel, cleats, bow eye, ski tow eyes and rub rail

I don't know if these areas are 100% accurate and together would weigh 150lbs or so? You're correct the Detwiler hydraulic jackplate on the back of the Nordic weighs 55lbs so that's a wash.

[Don Geiger]

Its very interesting to see what other checkmate that put up a good solid number. I don't think checkmates are that bad of a boat and definitely has the right to be next to any sob built on long Island or anywhere else. I would like to see some pics of the ones we are talking about.

I see how it is a popularity contest. When a guy like me comes here they frown upon actually running their boats and competing. I'm sorry that the in crowd don't like me and they don't wanna play in my sandbox. Ask urself why?????

There a checkmate site and plenty of over 90 im not a computer guy to post pics for you ,
:

[Greg G]

There a checkmate site and plenty of over 90 im not a computer guy to post pics for you.

I don't think anyone is questioning that the Pulsare 2100 can run above 90mph with a variety of OB power plants Don. I think most folks are more interested in there rough water performance at say 50-60mph. The Bernico and the Nordic went through the same background check btw from the Tribunal.

[progression22]

I don't think anyone is questioning that the Pulsare 2100 can run above 90mph with a variety of OB power plants Don. I think most folks are more interested in there rough water performance at say 50-60mph. The Bernico and the Nordic went through the same background check btw from the Tribunal.

What would make u think a mate couldn't handle bigger water conditions. In my opinion it more a driver then the hull.

[JamesGang]

What would make u think a mate couldn't handle bigger water conditions. In my opinion it more a driver then the hull.

Come on! I cant believe you have a Progression with a 22* V tapered to a 24* and then a small pad and think a 18* could even be close, or have an intended purpose to be even remotely in the same league. Really! Really, are you serious!!! By the way I have nothing against Checkmates. I have one and I love it, great boat. I also have a # of friends with them in different sizes. Never saw a Checkmate I didn't like, but 20s and 21s aren't class 7 material, SORRY. I built an engine for a buddy of mine who had a twin O/B 28, now that could run some rough water. No where near as good as my 31 Sutphen but its not a 31. I think it could run the rough just as good as a 26 Sutphen or maybe even better. The 26 & 31 Sutphens have a 26* V no pad, unbelievable reentry.

[progression22]

I'm not saying the are comparable. Yes the progression is a far superior build, as far as quality and Engineering. I'm saying a guy could take a mate and run in 1 to 2's footers without a problem and put a respectable number. A class 7 boat is where a quality boat comes out on top due to the straight abuse. In my opinion, for what we are doing on long Island I think a mate could possibly be a contender if setup with decent power and driver.

[JamesGang]

Yea it could be faster, and other shallower Vs would be faster too like the previously mentioned Allison. I just think we should be comparing apples to apples, not oranges. There is nothing here against these other Vs, they just have different primary purposes.

[David]

Ally's have as much dead rise as a SOB. But the pad is wider. Maybe more important, my 20 SS2000 is a lot smaller than a 21 Tuff and drives a lot smaller over rollers.

[JamesGang]

Whats the dead rise on your Allison?

[progression22]

Do u think its fair to compare an Allison to tuff, progression or superboat???

[allstock]

Its very interesting to see what other checkmate that put up a good solid number. I don't think checkmates are that bad of a boat and definitely has the right to be next to any sob built on long Island or anywhere else. I would like to see some pics of the ones we are talking about.

I see how it is a popularity contest. When a guy like me comes here they frown upon actually running their boats and competing. I'm sorry that the in crowd don't like me and they don't wanna play in my sandbox. Ask urself why?????

Lots of Checkmates out there north of 90. Heck My 21' BOWRIDER Checkmate with a stock Yamaha 250 runs 87 solo and 84 with five adults aboard. I lol at you guys removing your back seats looking for "the number". I have eight seats, too much work to take them all out. If I did and also pulled the 50+ lbs of stereo out I'm pretty sure I'd see over 90 as well.

[whipper]

Yea it could be faster, and other shallower Vs would be faster too like the previously mentioned Allison. I just think we should be comparing apples to apples, not oranges. There is nothing here against these other Vs, they just have different primary purposes.

Just so ya know Allison Grand Sports have a 24 deg deadrise and run real good in true 2fters at around 50 mph. They only thing that would keep them off this list in the free board at the bow. There only a couple inches shorter than the Tuff with the same beam and 4 inches less free board weight is the same as the rest of the boats on hear around 950-1000 lbs bare hull. and some run over 100 with a 225 2.5 and 112 300pm.

By no way suggesting they would run with a 22 Progression or a 21 Tuff at all. The bow on them are meant to be flown no driven. They are however very deep in the stern i would think as much so as the Tuff. But the Bow Entry vee is way to sloped back to make them hang in the swells or gapped chopped like a SOB. They are as I said though a 24 deg stern. This pick of Ziemers exemplifies how deep at the stern they are but as you can see the fighter jet bow isnt going to do it any favours in the truly nasty crap!. haha Mind you hes probably doing 106 probably in this pic!

[progression22]

Setup and driver is very important as u can see

[progression22]

Setup and driver is very important as u can see

[Greg G]

Just so ya know Allison Grand Sports have a 24 deg deadrise and run real good in true 2fters at around 50 mph. They only thing that would keep them off this list in the free board at the bow. There only a couple inches shorter than the Tuff with the same beam and 4 inches less free board weight is the same as the rest of the boats on hear around 950-1000 lbs bare hull. and some run over 100 with a 225 2.5 and 112 300pm.

By no way suggesting they would run with a 22 Progression or a 21 Tuff at all. The bow on them are meant to be flown no driven. They are however very deep in the stern i would think as much so as the Tuff. But the Bow Entry vee is way to sloped back to make them hang in the swells or gapped chopped like a SOB. They are as I said though a 24 deg stern. This pick of Ziemers exemplifies how deep at the stern they are but as you can see the fighter jet bow isnt going to do it any favours in the truly nasty crap!. haha Mind you hes probably doing 106 probably in this pic!

Good post whipper and while I never met a degree of deadrise that I did not like, stern deadrise is only one part of the equation in rough water. And btw, 1-2 footers are not rough water as we all know. In Long Island Sound 3 foot rollers are pretty much the norm whereas in New York Harbor about the same but they come at you from all directions. IMO bow entry deadrise angle is as big a part of the equation along with gunwale height (yep, my gunwale is bigger than your gunwale) and freeboard (kids don't like to get swamped) as has been mentioned. All of this is the reason why (as one example) the Nordic 21, even though it has only 18 degrees of deadrise at the transom, can easily run with any of the other boats on "The List" in rough water and could easily race APBA. Drop the bow and let her eat the rough water. To whipper's point you just aint gonna do that with any Allison. Great hulls - yes. Rough water at 45mph - no.

On the Checkmate, I'd still like to see some rough water footage of the 19 degree Pulsare 2100 running. I personally just don't know much about them either way. Pics would be telling for the Tribunal as they still need to decide on a replacement for the NLP Velocity 220 and it's only November!