GM and Ford

[Airboater]

Who will buy these cars?

and who can afford these cars ,I guess the UAW workers dont realize us reg Joe's don't make the big bucks they do .

[oldschoolltv]

they wont have to hire more people just saying that when times get good again and they get there overhead under control, they are paying there laborers twice what the competion is with benefits, they need to do like all businesses do cut the fat out and stay alive in tough times that is what we have done we are working on skeleton crew and making it, who will bail me out if I cant make payroll? Matt

[MODXR6]

I've been trying to keep up with this thread as I have an older cousin who graduated as a Mechanical Engineer (also from ISU but i got 1 semester left..) who works for GM. He sent out an email to friends and family recently and I figured it'd be good for you guys to read. He brought up alot of things I never thought about or knew. I don't really support a government bailout, but like most of you feel SOMETHING needs to be done, we CANNOT loose the American Automotive industry.

Email from my cousin, an engineer for GM:


I am sure you have been reading about the financial difficulty GM is facing w/ the current credit crisis in the US economy. As has been reported in the media, GM and the other US automakers are seeking a Government Bridge
loan to weather this economic storm. I have been reading a lot of
reactions throughout the US regarding the bridge loans. As a GM employee
I feel compelled to reach out to those who are not directly involved w/ the auto industry to help them better understand why this is a good investment
for the US taxpayer. After you read below that GM will produce a 100 mile
per gallon vehicle and currently produces the most E85 flex fuel vehicles in the US, please express your support of the US automotive industry to your congressman by visiting gmfactsandfiction.com.

I have heard comments that GM is a "dinosaur" and only produces gas
guzzling vehicles. These perceptions were justified 10 years ago but I
feel very strongly that the GM products introduced recently are better than
their foreign competitors and independent media sources agree. Did you
know GM offers more models than any other automotive manufacturer/OEM that
get 30 MPG or better? Did you know that the Chevy Malibu has better fuel
economy than the Toyota Camry and Accord? Same goes for the Chevy
Silverado vs Toyota Tundra. Did you know that GM will be the first OEM to
offer a 100 mile per gallon production vehicle (Chevrolet Volt) in calendar year 2010 (less than 2 years away)? Did you know GM currently has over 100 fuel cell vehicle being tested/evaluated on public roads by our elected officials? One last tidbit when it comes to fuel economy and technology, did you know that the hybrid SUVS and pickups from GM save more fuel
(gallons) per year than a Toyota Prius? GM is committed to reducing our
dependency on foreign oil. Having personally seen the cars GM will be introducing over the next 5 years, I can tell you they will be significantly better than the competition. They will provide class leading fuel economy and quality w/ gorgeous styling (something the foreign
competition does not offer). Without your support and government
assistance, sadly, you will not be able buy these game changing cars.

I have also heard comments that suggest the impact would only be felt in
Michigan. Did you realize that 1 in 10 jobs are tied to the automotive
industry? Furthermore, did you know that Lear Corporation in Iowa City
employs over 800 people (produces interior parts for Buick Lucerne and
Cadillac DTS)? We all know the importance of E85 to the farming community
but were you aware that neither Honda or Toyota offer a single vehicle that can use E85. Without government assistance the US automotive industry will collapse, significantly impacting the demand for E85 production and the farming community.

Many people have the notion that GM has an inefficient work force. Did
you realize that GM employs 60,000 fewer employees than Toyota but has
consistently sold more vehicles . GM also signed a historic labor and
health care agreement w/ the UAW which takes effect in January of 2010.
This agreement will enable GM to compete w/ the Asian Transplants (Toyota, Honda, etc) from a labor cost perspective.

GM is not the inefficient , non-innovator, poor quality vehicle manufacturer it is perceived to be. There is a lot of false/out of date information and/or perceptions regarding the US automotive industry. Please visit gmfactsandfiction.com to express your support of GM and the US automotive industry by contacting your congressman. Click on "I am a concerned American". Fill in your address and name and a form email will
automatically be sent to your congressman. It is that simple! I
sincerely appreciate the time and consideration you have given to the facts about GM. Please share these facts with your friends and family by forwarding this email.

Thanks,
Justin

gmfactsandfiction.com/
---

E85 isn't good for the environment. You must burn more of it than gas to get to the same place whether it's the store down the street or a trip on vacation. Less efficient, less hp/fuel burned & a drain on taxpayers in subsidies as well as higher food costs. The idea of E85 is a farce.
Electric isn't the answer either if fuel useage is looked at in the WHOLE PICTURE (at least it isn't everything claimed).
Hydrogen....if done right & a nationwide network setup is quite viable.

[Mark75H]

At least at this time, it takes more energy to create hydrogen for fuel than any other transportation scheme.

Its only up end is no carbon to offend Gore

[merccoop]

Modxr6- i agree with you. about e85 and electricity... at this point. There just isn't the battery technology available to make electric cars work.

You guys see this:

Auto CEO's fly seperate private jets to beg washington for taxpayers money!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/19/aut...ets/index.html

[mrcrsr]

they really need to scrap the unions!! you don't see toyota w/ the high labor cost problems, and i'm sorry, why is a worker at gm making 40+$ an hour to put screws in door panels!! kick the unions out, or go bankrupt and renegotiate!! i think unions were great in the past when workers needed protection, but now, they are a dinasaur that slows production and costs a fortune! if a company can't be successful, go out of business!! look at the last camaro, they priced the car so high they priced it out of its buyers reach, and they wonder why they didn't sell more

[MODXR6]

Modxr6- i agree with you. about e85 and electricity... at this point. There just isn't the battery technology available to make electric cars work.

You guys see this:

Auto CEO's fly seperate private jets to beg washington for taxpayers money!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/19/aut...ets/index.html

Yes but I was getting at the energy required to charge a substantial amout of vehicles. Just cause you plug it into the wall don't mean it's free & appears out of thin air.

At least at this time, it takes more energy to create hydrogen for fuel than any other transportation scheme.

I agree, but it will be (notice I said will be) the most efficient (mpg/energy used) fuel of the future. Oh & I work in the oil & gas industry but I'm smart enough to look ahead to what's in store for the future. But gasoline & diesel will be around for a long time as they are the most efficient (cost in dollars/hp produced) to move vehicles.
Nuclear is still what will power industry the most efficient.

[BRAVEHEART]

I have not read all 15 pages of this thread, but i saw the news this AM where the top CEO's of GM & Ford Flew to DC on their private planes, at a cost of 5 to 10 k each, to beg the gov. for billions of dollars to "save" their company's! Neither wanted to comment on their private jets, or the fact that they continue to be grossly compensated for running their companies to the bottom of the river. If they cared, shouldn't they be willing to take huge personal hits on their salary's and benny packages?
It's just about time to revert back to "By the people, For the people"! Can't wait till someone looses it and offs these greedy D-bags who have created this horrible financial climate!

[Hydrophobic guy]

If they cared, shouldn't they be willing to take huge personal hits on their salary's and benny packages?

I saw part of the meeting and they were asked if they would reduce their compensation by the chairman of the meeting. I missed part of it but one said yes he was willing to reduce his by 50% next was the Ford guy and he said he was fine where he was at currently. Needless to say I did a WOW you certainly want to lead by example. Guy was being paid 8.5 million for a salary guess he couldn't survive on 4.25 mill.

[Pro300x24LD]

they really need to scrap the unions!! you don't see toyota w/ the high labor cost problems, and i'm sorry, why is a worker at gm making 40+$ an hour to put screws in door panels!!

Source please. Skilled labor (Electricians, Pipefitters, Automation Techs) are typically not making $40/hr union wage. I find it hard to believe a standard assembly line worker is....

I saw part of the meeting and they were asked if they would reduce their compensation by the chairman of the meeting. I missed part of it but one said yes he was willing to reduce his by 50% next was the Ford guy and he said he was fine where he was at currently. Needless to say I did a WOW you certainly want to lead by example. Guy was being paid 8.5 million for a salary guess he couldn't survive on 4.25 mill.

I think you mis heard, I think he was willing to go to 50%...I know they said on the radio that one of them was willing to do no salary for a year or something (I could have misheard also)

[Mark75H]

next was the Ford guy and he said he was fine where he was at currently ... being paid 8.5 million

In a job interview where the company was downsizing in a pinch if they interviewed someone and he said he'd only work for top pay ... the HR interviewer would just say .... "Next!" ... that would be the end of it, they wouldn't even make the second round ...

[1BadAction]

E85 isn't good for the environment. You must burn more of it than gas to get to the same place whether it's the store down the street or a trip on vacation. Less efficient, less hp/fuel burned & a drain on taxpayers in subsidies as well as higher food costs. The idea of E85 is a farce.

I see we have another one that believes every old wives tale he hears about ethanol Is thinking and research that hard to do?

[Ziemer]

Source please. Skilled labor (Electricians, Pipefitters, Automation Techs) are typically not making $40/hr union wage. I find it hard to believe a standard assembly line worker is....

I'd be willing to bet if you took their yearly earnings and broke it down to a 40 hour work week...$40/hr is right on.

I worked as a temp in a Mopar parts depot and I was makeing damn near $20 an hour once you figured in COL, OT and shift diff. Guys that had been there for 10-15-20 years were making $80+ a year. Sad part was that we were right next door to a Publix distribution center (same job, different product) and the guys on the floor were making $10/hr.

During the holidays was the worst (or best if you're an employee) Two weeks off, but if you work during the time off...it's double time PLUS your vacation time paid (do the math... triple time!)

I worked there for 3 months and it was long enough to see all the union . Every night, every shift, it was a minimum of an hour of OT. Guess what... If I didn't want to work that extra hour and try and pick up someone elses slack, I got repremanded.

Oh yeah, other than management, most of my co-workers on the floor had no higher than a high school education. And good luck getting a full-time gig if you didn't have family or a real close connection.

[Ziemer]

I see we have another one that believes every old wives tale he hears about ethanol Is thinking and research that hard to do?

Not really sure where you're going with this? Ethanol is about 75% as efficient as gas when it comes to fuel mileage. Suger and corn has a very high acreage to gallon yield. However, the algae technology definitely looks interesting.

[mrcrsr]

gm still has the coin to build a plant in st petersburg, russia, though and take more jobs from our country! why not let the mexicans and russians bail them out, it seems like that mexico is where alot of the jobs went to increase their profit! is it because the unions drove gm, ford and chrysler away? seems like toyota, vw, etc are building union free plants here though?