GM and Ford

[RED ALERT]

I heard on a radio show their was an article in the Wall Street Journal that compared the GM employee's pay and beni's to the Toyota employee's that were working at plants in Texas and the GM employees pay and beni's averaged out to 80 bucks an hour and the Toyota employee's averaged out to 40 bucks an hour. Anybody see the article?

Similiar, but from 2005.
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmvstoyota/

Profitability per Vehicle
Source: 2005 Harbour Report
GM:
Loses $2,331 per vehicle

Toyota:
Makes $1,488 per vehicle

Average Hourly Salary for Non-Skilled, Assembly Line Worker

Source: Center for Automotive Research
GM:
$31.35/hour
NOTE: Includes idle workers still on payroll and those on protected status.

Toyota:
$27/hour
NOTE: Includes year-end bonus.

Average Labor Cost per U.S. Hourly Worker

Source: GM & Toyota
GM:
$73.73

Toyota:
$48

[Pro300x24LD]

Is that the old Buick City plant that was torn down?

I believe so, its been a while since I have driven through there, but I do know there are still some plants still standing.

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

I heard on a radio show their was an article in the Wall Street Journal that compared the GM employee's pay and beni's to the Toyota employee's that were working at plants in Texas and the GM employees pay and beni's averaged out to 80 bucks an hour and the Toyota employee's averaged out to 40 bucks an hour. Anybody see the article?

I must say, and so what's wrong with this pic.? I don't hear much NATIONALISM from the people that say they live in this country ,sad all we seem to hear are faults not real reasons, anyways i'll keep reading though my int. is waning for sheeple....
RichardKCMo

[mr_velocity]

I thought the bailout was a loan, or you get some kind of security in return?

Why would they be in this shape if there had not been a credit crunch by the banks, if the government would have controlled speculation in energy markets? They have high costs like many businesses in the US but they make hybrids and new models just like anyone else, they are competitive enough to stay in business when there is a market to sell to...but that market was taken away by some idiot democrats we can't blame, and idiot republicans and regulators that looked the other way.

GM has been taking a $hit long before the credit crisis hit. Back in 2005 - 2006 they were shutting plants down. The credit crunch may just be the final nail in the coffin, something would have probably happened soon anyway.

[JR IN JAX]

My whole point is; I and a lot of other Americans voted with our checkbooks not to support bad management and radical unions by not buying a sub-quality product at too high of a price.

Now it looks like the Government Democrats and their Union bosses are going to make an end-run around our choices and take our tax money and GIVE it to them to support their radical views of how to do business.

The Unions buying Democrat politicians on the commodity market is not how our tax money should be used.

This is the same situation as my Wife and me being forced to support the radical Teachers unions [another miserable failure] even if choosing a private school.

[1BadAction]

My whole point is; I and a lot of other Americans voted with our checkbooks not to support bad management and radical unions by not buying a sub-quality product at too high of a price.

so you bought a sub quality product that supports slave labor AND a foreign country. congrats.

http://www.nlcnet.org/article.php?id=562

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/...ss/sxlabor.php

http://piggington.com/ot_the_darker_...man_trafficing

[Pro300x24LD]

My whole point is; I and a lot of other Americans voted with our checkbooks not to support bad management and radical unions by not buying a sub-quality product at too high of a price.

So instead you bought a sub-quality product from a foreign manufacturer and took away american jobs.

Do some research on initial quality, recalls, warranty claims and overall quality. You sound fairly ignorant.

[JR IN JAX]

This is great, by your espousing my ignorance, you have proved your willingness to make assumptions that exposes yours.

If you had deductive reasoning you would at least found out the I had bought a Canadian made Honda [a fantastic vehicle]. "Slave labor" is also forcing taxpayers to support overpaid thugs that use paid-for politicians to support their Communist "dream".

Instead you chose to blindly defend the losers that have to cry for my tax money since they don't know how to run a business. The word for this type of behavior is called "EXTORTION".

Get a real grip on reality, not just trying to protect the communist Unions and the management that "Enables" them and you.

Get a real job, then get a "Life".

[Pro300x24LD]

This is great, by your espousing my ignorance, you have proved your willingness to make assumptions that exposes yours.

If you had deductive reasoning you would at least found out the I had bought a Canadian made Honda [a fantastic vehicle]. "Slave labor" is also forcing taxpayers to support overpaid thugs that use paid-for politicians to support their Communist "dream".

Instead you chose to blindly defend the losers that have to cry for my tax money since they don't know how to run a business. The word for this type of behavior is called "EXTORTION".

Get a real grip on reality, not just trying to protect the communist Unions and the management that "Enables" them and you.

Get a real job, then get a "Life".

I've said it through out this entire thread, you need to do some research and understand much more about imports, exports, domestic vehicles, transplant vehicles, part content, where the raw materials come from, taxes, tarriffs, loopholes, etc. Clearly you don't.

You do have the right to choose to purchase a Honda, no argument there, but your grip on reality is underinformed.

The only ignorance that I continue to believe you have is the thought that domestic quality is poor compared to foreign quality. You prove the rest on your own.

[JR IN JAX]

I have bought two Hondas and both have been phenomenal vehicles. My Kids drive Toyotas and love them. They drove Fords before and grew to hate them.

I have/have bought a whole fleet of Ford Trucks, before that a fleet of Chevys.

They are/have been very disappointing in initial/residual quality.

Am I ignorant because I recognize something that is blatantly plain.

The Few WELL PUBLICIZED issues with Toyota came from the problem of them over-expanding due to their popularity. They recognized this and made apologies/good repairs to their customers.

They must not have abused their customers too bad since the consumers worldwide are flocking to buy their products.

They also are not asking the taxpayers to be forced to support their mistakes either.

Companies come and companies go. Their people get new jobs unless they get the power to extort money from people who would not buy from them.

[Pro300x24LD]

LOL ignorance is bliss

[Kartracer]

LOL ignorance is bliss

[Hydrophobic guy]

Dodge guy never had any serious issues on my 12th now.
Just sold a 2500 P/U with 275K was still goin strong.
Gotta take care of them.

[Pro300x24LD]

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car...kings_car_news

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/article...and-Large-Cars

Highest Ranked: 2008 Chevrolet Malibu
Disproving the theory that all-new or redesigned models can’t achieve high levels of initial quality, the Chevrolet Malibu is the highest-ranking midsize car in initial quality in the 2008 IQS. By offering a clean exterior design and a stylish, rich-looking interior, the all-new, 2008 Chevrolet Malibu has impressed consumers and the auto-enthusiast press alike.

Based on the same platform as the Saturn Aura and Pontiac G6, the midsize 2008 Chevrolet Malibu is 6 inches longer than the 2007 model and, at 112 inches, is the longest Malibu ever and the same size as the 2008 Chevrolet Impala. The Malibu is available in four trim levels: LS, LT (1LT & 2LT), LTZ and Hybrid. Standard equipment highlights include remote keyless entry, power driver’s seat, Driver Information Center with oil-life monitor, OnStar and XM satellite radio. Options on the 2008 Malibu include electronic stability control; a variety of wheel packages; premium audio package; power seats; remote vehicle starter; and power-adjustable pedals.

Powering 2008 Chevrolet Malibu LS and LT models is a 169-hp, 2.4-liter 4-cylinder engine, paired with a 4-speed automatic transmission. This powertain achieves 22 mpg city/30 mpg highway. The Malibu Hybrid is also powered by the same 2.4-liter, 4-cylinder engine, coupled with a special hybrid electric propulsion system. It generates 164 hp. EPA fuel-economy estimates for the Malibu Hybrid are 24 mpg city/32 mpg highway. Malibu LTZ models come equipped with a 252-hp, 3.6-liter V-6 engine and a 6-speed automatic transmission with a TAPshift feature, which enables the driver to shift manually with steering wheel-mounted shift controls. The 3.6-liter engine/6-speed automatic transmission powertrain combination is also available on 2LT models. EPA fuel-economy estimates for the Malibu LTZ are 24 mpg city/32 mpg highway.

Ranked No. 3: 2008 Ford Fusion

Wow, you don't say, 5 out of 6 spots domestic?

Large Car Segment

Highest Ranked: 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix
Following the departure of the Bonneville after the 2005 model year and until the recent arrival of the potent G8, the Grand Prix was the de facto “flagship” sedan of the Pontiac brand, if for no other reason than it was simply the largest, most powerful car in the model lineup. Alas, the G8 has arrived and Grand Prix production has officially ceased (2008 is the final model year). But there’s still some good news for anyone considering a Grand Prix purchase. For the third consecutive year, the Pontiac Grand Prix is the award recipient for highest initial quality in the large car segment.

As can be expected with any model in its final year of production, changes to the 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix are minimal. Most notably, the GT trim has been dropped, leaving only the base and high-performance GXP models. Also, a tire-pressure-monitoring system and OnStar are now standard, and three new colors are available. Standard equipment of note on base 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix models includes a power driver’s seat, remote keyless entry, and power windows and door locks. The GXP adds, among other items, fog lamps, a performance-tuned suspension, tire-inflation kit, heated front seats, dual-zone air conditioning, leather-wrapped steering wheel, Monsoon 9-speaker audio system, remote vehicle start, head-up display, dual chrome-tip exhaust, and a rear sport spoiler. Stability and traction control and 4-wheel ABS are standard on GXP, with all but stability control available on the base Grand Prix.

The base 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix is powered by a 200-hp, 3.8-liter V-6 engine. GXP models get a 303-hp, 5.3-liter V-8 engine with cylinder-deactivation technology. A 4-speed automatic transmission is mated to both engines. EPA fuel-economy estimates for the V-6 engine are 18 mpg city/28 mpg highway, while the V-8 engine gets 16 mpg city/25 mpg highway.

2008 Pontiac Grand Prix prices
2008 Pontiac Grand Prix photos
Get a price quote on a 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix

Ranked No. 2: 2008 Mercury Sable
The Mercury Sable, known until last year as the Montego, ranks No. 2 in the large car segment in the 2008 IQS. Along with the name change comes the addition of a bigger Duratec engine, upgraded interior and exterior styling cues, and features and options that are a step above its Ford brethren. The 2008 Mercury Sable comes in two trim levels—base and Premier—both offering front- or all-wheel drive. The 2008 Mercury Sable is powered by a 263-hp, 3.5-liter V-6 engine. The engine is mated to a new 6-speed automatic transmission that replaces the CVT from the Montego.

Ranked No. 3: 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis
The Mercury Grand Marquis and its twin, the Ford Crown Victoria, are two of the oldest models still being produced for the U.S. market. However, the Grand Marquis remains popular among full-size sedan buyers. And, according to consumers, the Grand Marquis also offers a high level of initial quality, as evidenced by its No. 3 ranking in the large car segment in the 2008 IQS. The standard 224-hp, 4.6-liter V-8 engine—the only engine choice for both the GS and LS trims—is a flex-fuel engine that can run on gasoline, E85 ethanol, or any mixture thereof. It is mated to a 4-speed automatic transmission.—Jeff Youngs

Not Bad, two more domestics in the top 3.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/article...-Vehicles-(MAV)

Large Premium MAV Segment

Highest Ranked: 2008 Lincoln Navigator
Improving one rank position from last year’s No. 2 segment ranking, the Lincoln Navigator receives the award for highest initial quality in the large premium MAV segment in the 2008 IQS. The Navigator continues into 2008 with added standard features. Since the model had an extensive refreshing in 2007, including the addition of a longer-wheelbase model, no major changes have been made for 2008. The Navigator was one of the first luxury SUVs on the market, and shares its platform with the Ford Expedition. With its full-size truck frame, the Navigator is capable of towing a maximum of 8950 pounds.

The 2008 Lincoln Navigator comes in regular- and extended-wheelbase (L) models. Both are available in rear-wheel-drive or 4-wheel-drive (2WD or 4WD) models. Standard items on this upscale SUV include genuine wood trim, high-intensity-discharge headlamps, dual-zone climate control, 10-way power seats for driver and front-seat passenger, power-adjustable pedals, keyless entry keypad, power liftgate, and 18-inch machined aluminum wheels. The extended-wheelbase “L” version adds 25 more cubic feet of cargo space over the short-wheelbase model, a cargo management system, and power running boards that fold in when the doors are closed.

The 2008 Lincoln Navigator features six air bags, including side curtain air bags, and Ford’s AdvanceTrac stability control system with Roll Stability Control is optionally available. Both features are designed to help the vehicle stay on the driver’s intended path and prevent it from rolling over during sudden maneuvers. A 300-hp, 5.4-liter V-8 is the only engine for both the regular- and long-wheelbase models. It is mated to a standard 6-speed automatic transmission.

2008 Lincoln Navigator prices
2008 Lincoln Navigator photos
Get a price quote on a 2008 Lincoln Navigator

Ranked No. 2: 2008 Infiniti QX
The Infinti QX ranks No. 2 in the large premium MAV segment in the 2008 IQS. The largest offering in the Infiniti lineup, the QX56 is a full-size SUV with up to 8-passenger seating accommodations. Consumers are offered a choice of 2WD or 4WD. Launched in 2004, the QX56 shares body-on-frame platforms and engines with the Nissan Titan pickup and Nissan Armada SUV. For 2008, Infiniti significantly refreshed the QX56. The interior was enhanced and updated with additional features and technology, and the exterior was upgraded with new front and rear fascias, new wheels and a new roof rack. The sole powerplant in the 2008 Infiniti QX56 is a 320-hp, 5.6-liter V-8 engine.

Ranked No. 3: 2008 Cadillac Escalade
Achieving the No. 3 ranking in the large premium MAV segment in the 2008 IQS is the Cadillac Escalade SUV. All new for 2007, the Escalade lineup gets a boost in 2008 with the addition of the Platinum limited-edition model, equipped with Magnetic Ride Control technology, LED headlamps, and new exterior and interior styling. For 2008, the Escalade and new Escalade Platinum are available in 2-wheel-drive or all-wheel-drive configurations. Powering the 2008 Cadillac Escalade models is a 403-hp, 6.2-liter V-8 engine. A heavy-duty, 6-speed automatic transmission with two overdrive gears and tap up/tap down manual shift mode transfers the power to the wheels.—Jeff Youngs

What do you know, domestics one and two.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/article...ckups-and-Vans

Midsize Pickup Segment

Highest Ranked: 2008 Dodge Dakota
Improving two rank positions from last year’s No. 3 segment ranking, the Dodge Dakota captures the midsize pickup segment award in the 2008 IQS. For 2008, Dodge amps up the Dakota’s performance with a new 4.7-liter V-8 engine that can run on E85 ethanol fuel, classifying it as a Flexible Fuel Vehicle (FFV). The Dakota Crew Cab has the most interior room in its class, Dodge claims, with 37 cubic feet, and seating for up to six. Dakota also has the largest standard cargo bed in its class, and best-in-class towing capability (up to 7050 pounds), according to the manufacturer.

For 2008, the Dodge Dakota lineup includes two body styles—Crew Cab and Extended Cab—and six trim levels: ST, SXT, SLT, TRX, Sport and Laramie. All are available in 2- or 4-wheel drive. There are two cargo bed options: with the Extended Cab, the cargo bed is the longest standard in class at 78 inches, while the Crew Cab has a 64-inch cargo bed. Both feature built-in utility rails and a dual-position tailgate. Revised exterior styling includes new front fascias with available fog lamps, sleeker fenders, and a rear spoiler that Dodge says aids fuel economy.

The 2008 Dodge Dakota lineup features two different engines: a 210-hp, 3.7-liter V-6 unit coupled to a 6-speed manual transmission (standard on all V-6 engines except Sport and Laramie); and an all-new, 290-hp, 4.7-liter V-8 engine with Flex Fuel capability (able to operate on E85 ethanol fuel and classified as an FFV) connected to a standard 6-speed manual transmission. A 5-speed automatic transmission is available on the V-8.

2008 Dodge Dakota prices
2008 Dodge Dakota photos
Get a price quote on a 2008 Dodge Dakota

Ranked No. 2: 2008 Ford Ranger
The Ford Ranger is the No. 2-ranked model in the midsize pickup segment in the 2008 IQS. Originally introduced in 1983, the Ranger has not seen a significant design update since 1998. It comes in two cab styles: regular cab and extended SuperCab. The SuperCab is available with 2 or 4 doors, including two rear-hinged rear access doors. SuperCabs come with a 6-foot cargo bed, while regular cabs also offer a longer 7-foot bed. Regular cabs have seating for 3, while SuperCabs can seat 5 with two fold-down rear jump seats. One 4-cylinder and two V-6 engines are offered, and the Ranger is available with rear-wheel drive or 4-wheel drive. The Ranger shares its platform with the Mazda B-Series.

Will it ever stop? Domestics take 1 and 3 Toyota sandwiched in the middle....

Large Pickup Segment

Highest Ranked: 2008 Chevrolet Silverado LD
Redesigned for the 2007 model year, the Chevrolet Silverado light-duty pickup is ranked highest in the large pickup segment in the 2008 IQS. With three cab styles, three box lengths, four engines, and a maximum towing capacity of 10,500 pounds, Chevy’s popular pickup offers some minor refinements to pique consumer interest in 2008. Improvements include new brighter-lit instrument pointers, a new optional integrated trailer brake controller, and a new optional power seat on Regular Cab models, while XM satellite radio and one year of OnStar are now standard.

For 2008, consumers can choose a Chevrolet Silverado 1500 in Regular Cab, Extended Cab or Crew Cab, in rear-wheel drive (RWD) or 4-wheel drive (4WD) configurations. Three box lengths are offered: 5-ft. 8-in., 6-ft. 6-in., and 8-ft., along with five trim levels. The basic Work Truck (WT) is a short box, available as a Regular, Extended or Crew Cab. The LS trim (Crew Cab only) adds features such as remote keyless entry, power windows/door locks/mirrors, 17-inch chrome styled-steel wheels, and black foldaway, power heated, outside rearview mirrors. Silverado 1LT models (Reg., Ext. & Crew Cab) have V-8 engines (depending on model) and an auto-dimming inside rearview mirror with compass and temperature display. Silverado 2LT adds, among other items, 6-way power adjustable front seats with memory; dual-zone automatic temperature controls; steering wheel-mounted audio controls; fog lamps; and 17-inch custom aluminum wheels. LTZ models add heavy-duty trailering equipment; an automatic locking rear differential; leather front bucket seats; 10-way power adjustable front seats with memory; a Bose sound system; remote vehicle start; and a heated windshield washer fluid system.

Engine choices for the 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 vary by model and include a 195-hp, 4.3-liter V-6; 295-hp, 4.8-liter V-8; 315-hp, 5.3-liter V-8 with an iron or aluminum block and with flex-fuel capability; and a 367-hp, 6.0-liter V-8. All engines are mated to a 4-speed automatic transmission with tow/haul mode. A super-duty transmission is optional for LT and LTZ models, and the manufacturer provides a 5-year/100,000-mile powertrain warranty.

2008 Chevrolet Silverado (LD) prices
Get a price quote on a 2008 Chevrolet Silverado (LD)

Ranked No. 2: 2008 Toyota Tundra
After a rocky 2007 launch that resulted in several recalls for quality problems, the Toyota Tundra ranks No. 2 in the large pickup segment in the 2008 IQS. All-new for 2007, the 2008 model receives a handful of features added as standard equipment, and has added 13 additional models for a total of 44 offerings. The 2008 Toyota Tundra comes in three cab styles: Regular, Double Cab and CrewMax, and in 2- or 4-wheel drive. Buyers can opt for standard-bed or long-bed length, and base Tundra, SR5 or Limited trim levels. The base powerplant for the 2008 Toyota Tundra is a 236-hp, 4.0-liter V-6 engine. The entry-level V-8 engine is a 276-hp, 4.7-liter V-8. Toyota also offers a larger, 381-hp, 5.7-liter V-8 engine. The V-6 and 4.7-liter V-8 engines are mated to a 5-speed automatic transmission, while the 5.7-liter V-8 engine is paired with a 6-speed automatic transmission.

Ranked No. 3: 2008 Chevrolet Avalanche
Achieving the No. 3 ranking in the large pickup segment in the 2008 IQS is the Chevrolet Avalanche. The 2008 Avalanche is carryover from 2007, when it was redesigned, but does offer a few enhancements for 2008. Avalanche’s main claim to fame is its unique Midgate, which opens a panel between the cabin and bed to extend the bed from 63 to 99 inches. With the rear seat up and Midgate closed, the Avalanche has 6-passenger seating. Available in rear-wheel drive or 4-wheel drive, the Avalanche offers two V-8 engines (a standard 320-hp, 5.3-liter V-8 and an optional 366-hp, 6.0-liter V-8), including an E85 flexible-fuel version. A 4-speed automatic transmission with overdrive is standard on all 2008 Avalanche models.

You gotta be kidding me, domestics take two of the top three again?

Van Segment

Highest Ranked: 2008 Ford E-Series

Improving two rank positions from last year’s No. 3 segment ranking, the Ford E-Series receives the award for highest initial quality in the van segment in the 2008 IQS. Ford's E-Series has been the best-selling full-size van in the U.S. since 1980, according to Ford. The 2008 model year marks the first major alteration to the E-Series since 1992, and only the fifth major revision since Ford introduced its first flat-nose van nearly 50 years ago. The 2008 E-Series is not a completely new design. Though all sheetmetal forward of the windshield pillars is new, Ford notes that other sheetmetal, including doors and seat mounting points, are unchanged. The E-Series also received suspension, steering and braking changes for 2008.

Ford offers the 2008 E-Series van in several configurations. Passenger versions are available in E-150 and E-350 Super Duty (SD) form, as well as the extended-length (15-passenger) E-350 SE, and come in XL and XLT trim levels. The XL includes front air conditioning, AM/FM radio, and vinyl seats and floor covering. An interior upgrade package adds cloth seats and carpeting, power windows and locks, better sound insulation, and improved interior trim. The XLT includes cloth seats and carpeting, CD player, power mirrors/windows/locks, and cruise control. A new XLT Premium package replaces the 2007 model’s Chateau trim level. It includes front and rear leather captain's chairs, a power driver's seat, remote keyless entry, alloy wheels, and running boards. Cargo vans come in E-150, E-250 SD, and E-350 SD forms as well as extended-length E-250 SE and E-350 SE.

2008 Ford E-Series prices
Get a price quote on a 2008 Ford E-Series

Ranked No. 2: 2008 Nissan Quest
The top-ranked minivan in the 2008 IQS, the Nissan Quest ranks No. 2 overall in the van segment, below the Ford E-Series. Nissan completely redesigned the Quest for the 2004 model year. The Quest received a facelift in 2007 that redesigned the front fascia and the dashboard. In 2008, Nissan has added more standard features to several of the models, and added a new exterior color. The 2008 Nissan Quest is offered in four different models: Quest 3.5, Quest 3.5 S, Quest 3.5 SL and Quest 3.5 SE. All models share the same powertrain—a 235-hp, 3.5-liter V-6 engine and a 5-speed automatic transmission. The model differences are found in the equipment levels, cosmetics and passenger seating configurations.

Ranked No. 3: 2008 Chevrolet Express Achieving the No. 3 ranking in the van segment in the 2008 IQS is the Chevrolet Express. The full-size Express is little changed from 2007. All-wheel drive is available in 1500 Passenger and Work models only, while rear-wheel drive is standard. Passenger models offer 8-, 12- and 15-passenger seating configurations and come in LS and LT trim levels. LS, popular for fleet service, includes intermittent wipers, air conditioning, AM/FM stereo, enhanced driver information center, and a theft-deterrent system. The more family-oriented LT trim includes rear air conditioning, power windows and door locks, rear window defogger, full-floor carpeting, remote keyless entry, custom cloth upholstery, and front bucket seats

Those damn mis-managed domestic automakers putting out pure crap...I cant believe them.

[Pro300x24LD]

Hydrophobic I am a chevy guy, had nothing but great luck with my chevy trucks, ZERO complaints from me. I've owned 6 of them.

I owned one toyota, I learned that lesson.

You will always find an unhappy owner of every vehicle, and a happy owner of every vehicle, so you and I arguing about who's car is the best is fruitless.

I just can't believe the ignorance and un patriotic behavior of someone who could care less about american companies, american workers, american job loss and the american economy and takes such an elitist attitude about it.

But then again what do I know.