Why does the V-King carry the weight of a V6 better than the Vector?

[W2F a V-King]

I have a project Vector to restore, but wonder should I search out a Viking to get where I want to be?
We have all read that the Vector is a handful at high speed.
Why is the V-King a better candidate for top speeds?



As quoted from, http://www.hydrostream.org/Specific%20Models/Vector.htm


“However, the Viking is more forgiving, much more stable, and carries the weight of the heavier V6 better resulting in a better ride with less porpoising. “


I have searched every which way I could, and have found many threads about the Vector Hook, Wedge (as it was really designed) and how unstable they are with a heavier V6. A handful to pilot, blow over easy, etc..



I have to wonder though, why? Hull comparisons between the V-King and Vector are not radically different, are they?


The obvious differences at first look is the V-King is 8” longer, and has less lifting strakes (2).

Longer I get why it “might” add a little stability, but actually the lifting strakes should help keep the Vector from wallowing some, right? I realize the 8” added length on the V-King shifts the boats center and pivot point forward some.



Both have similar dimensions, and load carrying capacities. As per a 1985 catalog comparing the two.


Vector and V-King share Beam width at 89”, person capacity at 640 lbs., and total capacity at 1250 lbs.
V-King actually has a shallower transom by ½ an inch at 22-1/2, vs Vectors 23”.


The catalog I have doesn't give the weights of these boats, however Hydrostream.org gives the V bottom V-King a weight of 625..( rigged minus motor?) But does not give the weight of the Vector.
I can only guess the weight of the Vector to be minimally less, it's not given at that website. How much could 8” of these boats weigh? 25-50 lbs. ?


So why the 30 HP rating difference? Vikings 175 to Vectors 145? Does 8” get you 30 more HP rating?



Viper II builds post 1975, quote from Hydrostream.org



“Ron Baker's assignment to change the hulls so the boats would plane quicker, porpoise less, and turn better, especially with a load. Ron added a 24" wedge in the trailing edge of the bottom (see pictures below) and dropped the outside corners of the bottom of the boat from the transom to the outermost edge of the wing of both models. He widened the strake going forward from the outside corners of the transom. “


Further down in the article the author states that as the Vector II mold aged the wedges cure out to be a hook that caused instability at high speeds not giving the boat enough surface area to stabilize with guys like me wanting to hang a lot of HP to achieve the 100 mph range.


Quote:
“At high speed the boat could not find a flat surface to ride on as long as it needed to when trimmed out.”


Then again further down he states that straightening the hook and adjacent strakes gave back some stability.

“ Ron has straightened out a lot of Vector and Viper bottoms, and said they always handle better and go faster after he has done it.“


I am almost ready to start my Vector restore, and want to ask the vast arena of go fast people here a couple questions?


I am thinking that if I straighten, or flatten out the pad, fill the concave “trademark” that Howard used, and maybe widened the pad to match the width of the Viking pad, I would achieve a more stable version of the Vector?


My guess is that someone has already been there and done that, I just have not come across anything written about this.


I have yet to flip the boat and measure it up to see just how “hooked” mine is, or not.


May I ask anyone with thoughts to respond please?
Find a Viking? Or build my Vector?

Are there other things that can be done to the Vector to help stability at high speeds?
Windshield delete, or not?




Thank you,


James

[XstreamVking]

I really can't comment much on the vector mods or it's ability to run a big block. I have however ran my V-King with a lot of motors. Started with a 390# 245 hp bridgeport. Was before gps, but it was real fast for the time near 100? It will handle a 505# opti with no problem. Ran 90ish. 485# 3.0 EFI ran 90+. Prob my favorite motor on it is the 430# 200 2.5 EFI runs 86-88 and handles the best overall. My hull now is lighter than stock and is fairly straight since I blueprinted it during restoration a few yrs ago. Finally, keep the windshield....

[BeefKid]

battery in the boat the vector does fine with a 3.0 omc on it

[Deznuts3570]

I think i read somewhere that sam added more vee into the viking also when he built it..The pads came flat from the factory as i recall also. Hope this helps some!

[outasite]

Having a fair amount of seat time in both,IMO A Viking will tell ya (if your listening) that is about to get ya wet.The Vector is kinda like a cat,does what it does without much,if any warning.That is of course both with 200+hp.The Vec is faster because of the deadrise and narrower pad.At full speed the footprint on the water is less.Truth is its kinda like blonds, redheads,and brunetts on a given day ether one can be perfect.If you like the Vector,keep it, get seat time and it will do ya right.Its just not going to cut ya quite as much slack as the King would!.

[Deznuts3570]

From the hydrostream.org page they had a quote and it went along the lines of, if im running a vector and your watching from the bank, dont sneeze lol.

[rock]

I removed about half the hook and widened mine to that of a VKing and I loved it. I learned to drive in a VKing with a 200 Merc. Bought the Vector years later and the boat felt twitchy to me at speed (200+ 2.5 Merc) so I turned it over and changed pad to that of a VKing which in my opinion made the boat more stable at higher speeds but I still liked the feel of the VKing better. I also agree with keeping the windo. Most importantly cover the safety side of things first. These things are a blast but they can bite.

Rock

[BeefKid]

mine you could drive with one hand 80-90 mph

[Deznuts3570]

Beef seen ya 150mph add on fb. Thats good chit lol! Whats next?

[W2F a V-King]

I really can't comment much on the vector mods or it's ability to run a big block. I have however ran my V-King with a lot of motors. Started with a 390# 245 hp bridgeport. Was before gps, but it was real fast for the time near 100? It will handle a 505# opti with no problem. Ran 90ish. 485# 3.0 EFI ran 90+. Prob my favorite motor on it is the 430# 200 2.5 EFI runs 86-88 and handles the best overall. My hull now is lighter than stock and is fairly straight since I blueprinted it during restoration a few yrs ago. Finally, keep the windshield....

XstreamViking,

Thank you, I have read through your restoring of your V=King, Excellent workmanship!! Love the color and complete job.
I have a basket case XR4 I plan to build as hot as I can, so will not likely see the high speeds, but should give me an oprotunity to get aquainted with it, seat time and odities. Then maybe do a 2.5 swap later on?

Thank you,

James

[W2F a V-King]

I think i read somewhere that sam added more vee into the viking also when he built it..The pads came flat from the factory as i recall also. Hope this helps some!

Yes, I believe I read that as well. That's why I am wondering if I fill the con-caved area, and widen it, and flattened it to resemble the V-King pad, would that help give the boat the surface it needs to be more forgiving at higher speeds?
Was hoping someone had already seen this tried.

Thank you,
James

[W2F a V-King]

Having a fair amount of seat time in both,IMO A Viking will tell ya (if your listening) that is about to get ya wet.The Vector is kinda like a cat,does what it does without much,if any warning.That is of course both with 200+hp.The Vec is faster because of the deadrise and narrower pad.At full speed the footprint on the water is less.Truth is its kinda like blonds, redheads,and brunetts on a given day ether one can be perfect.If you like the Vector,keep it, get seat time and it will do ya right.Its just not going to cut ya quite as much slack as the King would!.

Ouch..yea, can relate to the analogy given..very good one too! I've only had Blond's, but completely agree. Some days are better than others

Never had many cats, but didn't care for them for about that exact reason. Sneaky, and quick.

I do like the Vector, but at this point in my project (gathering parts and knowledge) "if" I were to come across a V-King that needed the same restore (everything) would that be better? I really like the looks of both. The Vector seems to have a deeper cockpit, but the V-King has a better reputation.

I already have a Vector and a nice trailer...also getting "another" boat home require WILL some slick talking and some serious dancing .

I already have a nice bass boat in the basement, and a hot rod firebird there too . "Of coarse I'll sell the Vector if I find a V-King dear..."

Thank you!

James

[W2F a V-King]

I removed about half the hook and widened mine to that of a VKing and I loved it. I learned to drive in a VKing with a 200 Merc. Bought the Vector years later and the boat felt twitchy to me at speed (200+ 2.5 Merc) so I turned it over and changed pad to that of a VKing which in my opinion made the boat more stable at higher speeds but I still liked the feel of the VKing better. I also agree with keeping the windo. Most importantly cover the safety side of things first. These things are a blast but they can bite.

Rock

Rock,

Just what I have been looking for! Someone who has been there and done that! Man, I would love to read any notes you kept or pictures you might have taken. Or suggestions? Here or in PM?

Did you address the strakes on either side of the pad? They were supposed to have had some "wedge" effect added as well. Don't know, haven't flipped mine yet.

Yes, I like the looks of the windshield on it, and mine is in usable condition, just didn't know if it effected the ride at high speed. In that article about the Vector and the Hook/Wedge, the author made mention of Howard not liking how high the Vector was being hung at speed, and he referenced the windshield as the culprit.

"At the time, HydroStream factory drivers and racers usually drove the boats with no windshields on them. Because of the bow angle sensitivity, driver's had to be judicious with the trim, and its effects on boat trim angle was easily seen from the shoreline. However, when customers started running these boats with windshields at increasingly faster speeds, Pipkorn became very concerned with how high these boats were being hanged."


Thank you for your reply,

James

[W2F a V-King]

mine you could drive with one hand 80-90 mph

Nice Pictures!!
So was your Vector hull modified in anyway? Pad or bottom tweaked?

How did you get your hat to stay on?
Thank you,

James

[speedman79]

A vector is basically a Viper with a beak!

<center> The Vector was originally rated for 165 HP but was later downrated to 145. Pipkorn wanted a hull that would handle more horsepower than what he had available at the time, so essentially he took the Viper and added two feet onto the nose to get the Vector and a higher HP rating. </center>

Now on a Vking 8" inches doesn't sound like a lot but... from reading up on how the Vking was developed it seems that 8" was added behind the windshield. That sounds like it shifted the cockpit weight forward(seats, persons) forward making for a better balanced boat when hanging 400-450 lbs motors on the back. Widened pad would also help carry the extra weight. Its not drastic differences but small tweaks can go a far way. I'd love to get Vking, put it on my wish list!