Tricks that old racers get up to after retirement

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Originally Posted by jackiewilson

Daily gripe time.
Lewis Hamilton lost 50% of his following after his idiotic antics at Monza. How the hell he thinks folk like me are “ Priveliged white “ is beyond my comprehension.
He forgets that the only thing that gets you up there is ability . Fact that hes black as the ace of spades is Niether here nor there. Has no bearing on the fact hes a very good race car driver.
He bemoans the fact that he is the only black man on the F1 circuit, wonder if its ever occurred to him that the reason there are not any more, is simply because.none of them are good enough to deserve a place up there !
I followed him since his carting days , right up to this season. I hoped he would break every record there ever was .
Today i dont give a flying fart if he retires tomorrow or not. Its all about RESPECT !
He spouts with his mouth about equality, but happily grabs the millions he earns with both hands.
No doubt i will be branded RACIST, nothing could be further from the truth .
At the moment , theres nobody to touch him for ability on the F1circuit, thats all down to ability, not his skin colour.
Oxford Dons told the BLM , should they touch the statue of Cecil Rhodes , then the million pound grants FROM THE RHODES FOUNDATION would cease immediately , which meant the Rhodes college would cease to function. Leaving all students , including blacks without schooling. ITS STILL STANDING.
Long standing BBC TV program Question of Sport has just sacked the three WHITE presenters. Five will get you ten the next three presenters will be a Black woman . A black man and an ASIAN .
Sweet bugger all to do with ability and popularity. Everything to do with Political Correctness.
BLM do not want Equality. They want Control.
Thats the end of todays sermon.

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Is it because Merc are selling white engines?
Suzuki are all black
OMC were black on the inside on white on the outside

You don’t think CK saw this coming and painted all Mercs black. Must have known something, before 1962 most Mercs were white.

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Originally Posted by jackiewilson

My laptop. Went crazy a couple of days ago. Threw all its dollies before i gave it a rest. Happened every time i tried S and F, anyone else have this ?

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Before S&F posted a "down for server maint" message, the site was "redirecting" to girlie games and flash software download pages. Hacked??? One thing for sure when this kind of thing happens, give this site a wide berth until its stopped from doing this! Keep your anti-virus software up to date too!

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Originally Posted by jackiewilson

Daily gripe time.
Lewis Hamilton lost 50% of his following after his idiotic antics at Monza. How the hell he thinks folk like me are “ Priveliged white “ is beyond my comprehension.
He forgets that the only thing that gets you up there is ability . Fact that hes black as the ace of spades is Niether here nor there. Has no bearing on the fact hes a very good race car driver.
He bemoans the fact that he is the only black man on the F1 circuit, wonder if its ever occurred to him that the reason there are not any more, is simply because.none of them are good enough to deserve a place up there !
I followed him since his carting days , right up to this season. I hoped he would break every record there ever was .
Today i dont give a flying fart if he retires tomorrow or not. Its all about RESPECT !
He spouts with his mouth about equality, but happily grabs the millions he earns with both hands.
No doubt i will be branded RACIST, nothing could be further from the truth .
At the moment , theres nobody to touch him for ability on the F1circuit, thats all down to ability, not his skin colour.
Oxford Dons told the BLM , should they touch the statue of Cecil Rhodes , then the million pound grants FROM THE RHODES FOUNDATION would cease immediately , which meant the Rhodes college would cease to function. Leaving all students , including blacks without schooling. ITS STILL STANDING.
Long standing BBC TV program Question of Sport has just sacked the three WHITE presenters. Five will get you ten the next three presenters will be a Black woman . A black man and an ASIAN .
Sweet bugger all to do with ability and popularity. Everything to do with Political Correctness.
BLM do not want Equality. They want Control.
Thats the end of todays sermon.

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if it is sooo BEMOANING to hamilton that he is the only black driver in f1, why doesen't he sponsor one of his chosing. put his money where his mouth is.

Well, i just heard back from Billy.
I must have heard it wrong, he confirmed he blew over 8/10 times including a double blowover.
Too many barrel rolls to remember.
He also blew over Spaldings brand new Pickle at Lake X.
Double roll over at Parker and Galveston.
Guess he drove closer to the limit and then some!

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Originally Posted by FUJIMO

...i know this...he holds the record for the fewest flips, for total laps, in all of boat racing history...a record that will never, ever, be broken...https://www.screamandfly.com/attachm...3&d=1599772697

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...I repeat...;)

Billy always got the good stuff I see. Check out those fancy "standard" twin plug heads.

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Originally Posted by techteam

Billy always got the good stuff I see. Check out those fancy "standard" twin plug heads.

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C’mon fellas, how do you know they weren’t something ALEX cooked up?
When GG was in charge, Billy, Bentz and Reggie got all the good stuff. The Europeans got the best of the rest, not even Cees got the gourmet motors. Mercury always liked home cooking best.

...i'm think'n those heads were sourced elswhere, can't remember who...

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Originally Posted by fujimo

...i'm think'n those heads were sourced elswhere, can't remember who...

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alex, the dentist !!!

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Originally Posted by jackiewilson

alex, the dentist !!!

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Correct - Alex Hledin from Hudson, Quebec (near Montreal, Canada) - a dentist & brilliant 2-stroke engineer. He and his brother Peter Hledin (Owner/designer of Skater) started off in the OPC/Sportscraft division, I believe in the very early 70’s. Alex’s marine interests parlayed from building tunnel boats to engine development soon after Peter was badly hurt while racing a tunnel in 1971.

Alex has worked closely with several World Champions and their teams, as well as the engine manufacturers over the past four decades, contributing much to the sport- specifically F1 - past and present.

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Originally Posted by jackiewilson

alex, the dentist !!!

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Correct - Alex Hledin from Hudson, Quebec (near Montreal, Canada) - a dentist & brilliant 2-stroke engineer. He and his brother Peter Hledin (Owner/designer of Skater) started off in the OPC/Sportscraft division, I believe in the very early 70’s. Alex’s marine interests parlayed from building tunnel boats to engine development soon after Peter was badly hurt while racing a tunnel in 1971.

Alex has worked closely with several World Champions and their teams, as well as the engine manufacturers over the past four decades, contributing much to the sport- specifically F1 - past and present.

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Originally Posted by Watermark

Correct - Alex Hledin from Hudson, Quebec (near Montreal, Canada) - a dentist & brilliant 2-stroke engineer. He and his brother Peter Hledin (Owner/designer of Skater) started off in the OPC/Sportscraft division, I believe in the very early 70’s. Alex’s marine interests parlayed from building tunnel boats to engine development soon after Peter was badly hurt while racing a tunnel in 1971.

Alex has worked closely with several World Champions and their teams, as well as the engine manufacturers over the past four decades, contributing much to the sport- specifically F1 - past and present.

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Yeah Mark, dental school training helps with porting engines LOL

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Originally Posted by Watermark

Correct - Alex Hledin from Hudson, Quebec (near Montreal, Canada) - a dentist & brilliant 2-stroke engineer. He and his brother Peter Hledin (Owner/designer of Skater) started off in the OPC/Sportscraft division, I believe in the very early 70’s. Alex’s marine interests parlayed from building tunnel boats to engine development soon after Peter was badly hurt while racing a tunnel in 1971.

Alex has worked closely with several World Champions and their teams, as well as the engine manufacturers over the past four decades, contributing much to the sport- specifically F1 - past and present.

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Did the OMC F1 V8 twin plug I believe?

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Originally Posted by powerabout

Did the OMC F1 V8 twin plug I believe?

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I think he did dual plug heads on Merc V6's well before they appeared on OMC V8's.

Watermark, do you remember the SJ boat he built with the hydraulic spoilers that came out of the deck driven by Jean Pierre Nicole. Pretty radical back in the day.

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Originally Posted by John Schubert

Yeah Mark, dental school training helps with porting engines LOL

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Haha , true enough, John.
- Maybe Alex had a bigger plan in mind.. Race on Sunday, then recycle (melt-down) pistons to fill cavities on Monday!! ;0)

Don’t forget Billy and RON Anderson were friends for years. It’s rumoured that Anderson might have known a little about two strokes. I think he moved back to Seattle a few years back. Lived in Australia too. May just have looked at KAY MARSHALLS old motor!!

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Originally Posted by Watermark

Correct - Alex Hledin from Hudson, Quebec (near Montreal, Canada) - a dentist & brilliant 2-stroke engineer. He and his brother Peter Hledin (Owner/designer of Skater) started off in the OPC/Sportscraft division, I believe in the very early 70’s. Alex’s marine interests parlayed from building tunnel boats to engine development soon after Peter was badly hurt while racing a tunnel in 1971.

Alex has worked closely with several World Champions and their teams, as well as the engine manufacturers over the past four decades, contributing much to the sport- specifically F1 - past and present.

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Hledins' came up with a tri-butterfly intake front end that, well, opened up the entire reed cage chamber at WOT. Thing was scary looking....more like a intake port for a submarine? They also experimented with o-ring heads.

Ron made 2 stroke race power for a lot of folks. His engine shop in Lynnwood WA was the source of that power for many teams. To get a motor from Ron in time for spring break-in and testing, you had to be on his reservation list and your block in his shop by early September at the end of the previous season. He was always booked solid thru the winter building engines. Billy always had a place in the front of Ron's waiting list.

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Originally Posted by WaterZebra

Hledins' came up with a tri-butterfly intake front end that, well, opened up the entire reed cage chamber at WOT. Thing was scary looking....more like a intake port for a submarine? They also experimented with o-ring heads.

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Mercury had a stack of two stroke geniuses on their books . Doc Morgan, Dr. Blair out of Belfast university. Dick Lampeter at Lake X. I was only ever on the fringes. Im certain WILLABEE could tell the tale of many more. Was Billy who Paid Alex and Anderson, (thats if he ever did pay them). Just having Billy drive the winning boat with the knowledge that you did his motor was enough for some.
Lets not forget Leo—— He could swop a powerhead in under five minutes, with a little help from his friends.
Leo was with Cees most of his racing career and i dont doubt for a minute it was Leo who made those two liter OMC’S sing.
Leo continued to be with the Seebolds for many years and up to Tims retirement he was always there.

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Originally Posted by peterse90

I think he did dual plug heads on Merc V6's well before they appeared on OMC V8's.

Watermark, do you remember the SJ boat he built with the hydraulic spoilers that came out of the deck driven by Jean Pierre Nicole. Pretty radical back in the day.

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I got an idea when Velden came up with quick change sponson sets. The sponsons were paired together with 2 spars and could be swapped for different lengths, steps, camber angles, etc without rebuilding the whole boat. I wanted to take the idea further by having hydraulically adjustable sponsons (fwd-aft) to change the boat length but more importantly the triangular pattern between the prop shaft and aft-most points of the sponsons. I had the whole deal laid out on paper but shelved the idea when I found that the APBA OPC rules restricted any method of changing the CG while underway. I guess the rules were changed when they found that racers were using sliding seats or fuel tank mounts at some point.

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Originally Posted by WaterZebra

I got an idea when Velden came up with quick change sponson sets. The sponsons were paired together with 2 spars and could be swapped for different lengths, steps, camber angles, etc without rebuilding the whole boat. I wanted to take the idea further by having hydraulically adjustable sponsons (fwd-aft) to change the boat length but more importantly the triangular pattern between the prop shaft and aft-most points of the sponsons. I had the whole deal laid out on paper but shelved the idea when I found that the APBA OPC rules restricted any method of changing the CG while underway. I guess the rules were changed when they found that racers were using sliding seats or fuel tank mounts at some point.

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Long before Veldon came out with changeable sponsons , Bill Brown did it in aluminium. He became known as “Billy Two Rivets”. Problem was The boat didnt go worth a lick with either set of sponsons.
Trouble with the UIM is, they never listened . Always thought they knew best. Half of them had never been anywhere near a boat, but the pay and expense account was good.

Attachment 473583Attachment 473584

Was foraging round the car boot sale yesterday, as i am want on any given Thursday morning. Came across a rusty old trunk that had been open to the elements. Best guess was . It had been in a long forgotten shed and the roof had caved in. All the tools and gauges were rusty almost beyond redemption. Came across a cloth bag that had 25 old model vehicles inside . Most of them were die cast from the 50/60’s. But the models themselves were of classics .Maserati, BUGGATTI, Hispano Suiza. Rolls Royce and Bentley, with the odd mercedes and Jaguar ss1000. A few traction engines , an old petrol pump and a 1914 sunbeam and sidecar.
Cost me a whole fiver , didnt bitch about it too much. Just been offered a tenner for the petrol pump.
Im sure ill find. USE FOR THEM SOMEWHERE.

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Originally Posted by peterse90

I think he did dual plug heads on Merc V6's well before they appeared on OMC V8's.

Watermark, do you remember the SJ boat he built with the hydraulic spoilers that came out of the deck driven by Jean Pierre Nicole. Pretty radical back in the day.

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The OMC F1 V8 dual plug heads came with a funky combustion chamber, I think that was a later idea when they were looking for power on the 3.0 engine?
Maybe thats what wrong with the new Merc, it needs dual plug heads, its makes less HP per ci than the OMC did 40 years ago
Same weight but its a thin wall diecast block versus sand cast?

I was racing during the time before power trim became available. Ballast tanks in the bow were one solution and I had one in my marathon boat. I could deploy a small scoop to fill it and open a 1inch valve to empty it. Used an old Mercury 2 lever remote to operate it. The sliding seats were made possible by using Ride Guide steering. The best one I ever saw was in Frank Browns boat in the 1966 9 Hour. It was chain driven and used a Mercury DR starter motor to run it back and forth. This setup was pretty durable since it seemed to be working well all the way to the end of a 9 hour race. I suspect Ed Hauptner had something to do with it. Moving the weight of the driver,fuel ,battery etc.. was very effective

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Originally Posted by WaterZebra

I got an idea when Velden came up with quick change sponson sets. The sponsons were paired together with 2 spars and could be swapped for different lengths, steps, camber angles, etc without rebuilding the whole boat. I wanted to take the idea further by having hydraulically adjustable sponsons (fwd-aft) to change the boat length but more importantly the triangular pattern between the prop shaft and aft-most points of the sponsons. I had the whole deal laid out on paper but shelved the idea when I found that the APBA OPC rules restricted any method of changing the CG while underway. I guess the rules were changed when they found that racers were using sliding seats or fuel tank mounts at some point.

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We used a ballast tank in the 17’ Molinari to great effect. Shakey Bill had the best idea using a starter motor and a chain. He could move the fuel tank about six inches, and pretty quickly too.

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Originally Posted by powerabout

The OMC F1 V8 dual plug heads came with a funky combustion chamber, I think that was a later idea when they were looking for power on the 3.0 engine?
Maybe thats what wrong with the new Merc, it needs dual plug heads, its makes less HP per ci than the OMC did 40 years ago
Same weight but its a thin wall diecast block versus sand cast?

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Mercury's Racing V8 moves forward in production, and OMC's V8 is dormant.

Attachment 473619

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Originally Posted by jackiewilson

Don’t forget Billy and RON Anderson were friends for years. It’s rumoured that Anderson might have known a little about two strokes. I think he moved back to Seattle a few years back. Lived in Australia too. May just have looked at KAY MARSHALLS old motor!!

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Ron Anderson was involved with Merc's V6 racing engine project.
The photos below are debut of the T-3 at a Koblenz area race in Germany in 1973.

I knew Ron was a junior engineer, because he did not get to fly from Como Italy to the race.
He had to ride with me and Rick LaMore. But then he was keeping an eye out on boat 6,
which had the only T-3 engine in the upcoming race, that I was transporting to the race site.

Bob Spalding drove boat 6 at the race.

Attachment 473629

Ron Anderson with Scott Gillman too.

https://external-content.duckduckgo....jpg&f=1&nofb=1

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Originally Posted by Lake X Kid

Mercury's Racing V8 moves forward in production, and OMC's V8 is dormant.

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Not sure what you mean there, are we are talking history on making a F1 only engine, or making a winning engine racing itself, or its will last in production as long as the OMC v8 did, or brown paper bags to the UIM can get exclusivity on any engine to make it look like a winner or we should thank Mercury for saving F1?

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Originally Posted by powerabout

Not sure what you mean there, are we are talking history on making a F1 only engine, or making a winning engine racing itself, or its will last in production as long as the OMC v8 did, or brown paper bags to the UIM can get exclusivity on any engine to make it look like a winner or we should thank Mercury for saving F1?

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C’mon Pilgrim, you know damn well, exactly what he means. Mercury head ever up
ards with four stroke V8’s. OMC are dead and buried.
the OMC V8 was a pure race engine, nothing more.
UIM was happy to have them as F1. Lasted four years i believe before OMC and its promotor threw in the towel.
Then the Jiggery pokery started . UIM and the promotor had nowhere to go. Lets nick the FONDA series. so between them they did just that.
Im surprised Mercury made a pure racing version of the V8. purely for F1. Four strokes dont like anything above the 10000 rpm. Mark./
Like it or not Mercury have always been at the front in any kind of competition. Wasn’t necessary to hand out the brown envelopes.
Over the years Mercury have seen off all challengers and are still at the fore in outboard production.

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Originally Posted by jackiewilson

C’mon Pilgrim, you know damn well, exactly what he means. Mercury head ever up
ards with four stroke V8’s. OMC are dead and buried.
the OMC V8 was a pure race engine, nothing more.
UIM was happy to have them as F1. Lasted four years i believe before OMC and its promotor threw in the towel.
Then the Jiggery pokery started . UIM and the promotor had nowhere to go. Lets nick the FONDA series. so between them they did just that.
Im surprised Mercury made a pure racing version of the V8. purely for F1. Four strokes dont like anything above the 10000 rpm. Mark./
Like it or not Mercury have always been at the front in any kind of competition. Wasn’t necessary to hand out the brown envelopes.
Over the years Mercury have seen off all challengers and are still at the fore in outboard production.

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...amen jackie. and merc created the overdrive midsection for the number four ssm they are using on the four stroke, regarding r.p.m.------fart smellers i'd say:thumbsup: ...apples to oranges comparison...the new to the old...2-cycle to 4 cycle, etc...

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Originally Posted by Lake X Kid

Mercury's Racing V8 moves forward in production, and OMC's V8 is dormant.

Attachment 473619

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Shades of the famous BP?

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Originally Posted by GENE LANHAM

Shades of the famous BP?

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...no gene. nothing shifty going on here...;)

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Originally Posted by jackiewilson

C’mon Pilgrim, you know damn well, exactly what he means. Mercury head ever up
ards with four stroke V8’s. OMC are dead and buried.
the OMC V8 was a pure race engine, nothing more.
UIM was happy to have them as F1. Lasted four years i believe before OMC and its promotor threw in the towel.
Then the Jiggery pokery started . UIM and the promotor had nowhere to go. Lets nick the FONDA series. so between them they did just that.
Im surprised Mercury made a pure racing version of the V8. purely for F1. Four strokes dont like anything above the 10000 rpm. Mark./
Like it or not Mercury have always been at the front in any kind of competition. Wasn’t necessary to hand out the brown envelopes.
Over the years Mercury have seen off all challengers and are still at the fore in outboard production.

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You forgot F3 where OMC saw off Merc for 20 years with an engine full of fishing motor parts, then in mono hulls T850 ( stock 70hp) was all Yam and still today.

When you say in the fore of outboard production do you mean technology or sales numbers?

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Originally Posted by FUJIMO

...no gene. nothing shifty going on here...;)

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shades of Yam V8 and Suzuki 350 gears under the powerhead....
Did they copy it, will there be a patent fight???

Nice to see Merc finally catch up on technology to reduce the load on the gearbox, Merc need to add that to production engines like the Japs have
Then they can add shift to the vertical shaft( like a BP) and put huge or more gears in the lower?
Back to the future...

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Originally Posted by powerabout

You forgot F3 where OMC saw off Merc for 20 years with an engine full of fishing motor parts, then in mono hulls T850 ( stock 70hp) was all Yam and still today.

When you say in the fore of outboard production do you mean technology or sales numbers?

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Who rattled your cage today ? I never forget anything Pilgrim , please don’t give me all that crap about “Fishing Motor Parts”. Nobody disputes the OMC 750 had much more grunt than the equivalent Mercury. But if you want to talk about long levity in race motors, how about the V6 Mercury? Nearly fifty years before they finally pulled the plug.
Technology or production, you choose. Fact is, Mercury are still there, still expanding, still employing. Don’t blame Mercury because there’s no competition from any other manufacturer, in any capacity! As the old saying goes “Put up or shut up” !
T 850 just happens to suit the Yami, what other manufacturer has an 850 ? Another old adage is “no substitute for cubic inches”. If you want a motor to go racing, get one that has the full cubic capacity in the beginning, then fiddle fart !
Im still surprised that Mercury put their product where their mouth is !
Hells teeth Pilgrim , it’s Sunday, and I’m too old to start arguments again !

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Originally Posted by jackiewilson

Who rattled your cage today ? I never forget anything Pilgrim , please don’t give me all that crap about “Fishing Motor Parts”. Nobody disputes the OMC 750 had much more grunt than the equivalent Mercury. But if you want to talk about long levity in race motors, how about the V6 Mercury? Nearly fifty years before they finally pulled the plug.
Technology or production, you choose. Fact is, Mercury are still there, still expanding, still employing. Don’t blame Mercury because there’s no competition from any other manufacturer, in any capacity! As the old saying goes “Put up or shut up” !
T 850 just happens to suit the Yami, what other manufacturer has an 850 ? Another old adage is “no substitute for cubic inches”. If you want a motor to go racing, get one that has the full cubic capacity in the beginning, then fiddle fart !
Im still surprised that Mercury put their product where their mouth is !
Hells teeth Pilgrim , it’s Sunday, and I’m too old to start arguments again !

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Agree, the Merc V6 needs to be in the engine hall of fame, along side the 3 cyl OMC

( F2 is happily running with a EPA compliant v6 2 DFI Merc till Merc decides they cant use it..)

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Originally Posted by powerabout

Agree, the Merc V6 needs to be in the engine hall of fame, along side the 3 cyl OMC

( F2 is happily running with a EPA compliant v6 2 DFI Merc till Merc decides they cant use it..)

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Lets face it Pilgrim, no company can afford to keep an obsolete motor running for long. Trick will be to see if they (or anyone else) can make a light two litre four stroke outboard For competition purposes I doubt that, took much Outlay for so little return.

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Originally Posted by jackiewilson

Lets face it Pilgrim, no company can afford to keep an obsolete motor running for long. Trick will be to see if they (or anyone else) can make a light two litre four stroke outboard For competition purposes I doubt that, took much Outlay for so little return.

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Well saying that I can buy parts and complete small block chevs from GM 65 years after that design came out?
I walk around asia and see brand new Honda bikes from the 70's

So many boats built to suit the Merc v6 and now there is nothing to buy in that power/weight range? Modern technology cant seem to do it?