300r vs 300xs on same boat

[Double Rigged]

Where were they going to find 400hp in that motor? Adding displacement? I don't think the 3.2xs motor was near 400, was it? And that had better (modern) fuel management. They didn't sound near as cool as twin 2.5's anyways. :D
Diamond Marine was well on their way to building a 400hp version for Jim and Garth before their accident in Skater the killed them. They were funding it. I believe there was a larger displacement, porting, higher RPM, new fuel management etc.

[powerabout]

300 needs a new block so you can mod exhaust, perhaps a job for CRT?

[Capt.Insane-o]

No..

[JPEROG]

Diamond Marine was well on their way to building a 400hp version for Jim and Garth before their accident in Skater the killed them. They were funding it. I believe there was a larger displacement, porting, higher RPM, new fuel management etc.

As of last week the remaining power head was for sale. I was approached but had to pass as I am making the jump to the 8 stacks...

Joe

[Chaz]

I do have to agree the thread went way off the rails by page 2. That's when all the "Woff Tickets" were sold .. members subscribed .. and nothing but crickets .. :p

Someone in the V-8 "Hierarchy" should have at least had the class to come back and post ... "No Improvement"... And yes the rest of us should have just let it die a quick death and wind up back on page 20 by now .. ;)

How much of a Skater is Supa-Star's 24' Skater, I don't know, but the day I saw it @ D.W.'s there was a box/tunnel extension being added, 2 or 3 people rolling around underneath it, makin dust with DA sanders .. Not my business how tuned up the bottoms are, but I would say it a bit more Skater than Joes 24'. So results by an average Joe, may differ .. :cheers:

In case someone missed the memo .. The new V-8 , 300R is a 300+ HP motor , like the 300x is .. Neither are 350's or 400's .. the're a big inch ..4 stroke 300 with a bunch of mid range torque to get 36 or 40+ foot center consoles on top.
Regular gas .. I know how important that talking point has become .. but here's a clue, it burns junk fuel and survives because it has NO COMPRESSION. They don't pull to Nepon-siki .. because it has a Pee Wee Herman CAMSHAFT to match the lack of compression.
No need for anyone to take it personally, it's not like anyone here actually built those motor's themselves. You bought what they were willing to sell ya, nothing more, nothing less ... :rolleyes:

So now we reached the point where the original crystal ball predictions of effortlessly going 130 .. belly-flopped. Better up sell to wide body Skaters and DW/fatcat boats, cuz the narrow hulls aint a gonna do it.
Opps, it's the weight of the wide Skater .. if you say so.
You don't have to upsell me on the DW/FC, thank you. I was sub-contracted many Rick George / Fatcat projects, well before the plug for that boat was ever cut. Thinkin back, I believe I started the original thread on that boat after the first few came out of the mold .. I'm not one to make predictions cuz I don't wanna put myself in the same predicament to where you guys put yourselves of having to find a nice downhill sloped river or waterfall to make your predictions a reality .. :eek:
To add one more to the pile .. a couple of the S, S/S 32DW's with the 7 cylinder 3.2L motors can go a buck-twenty .. So again, what performance gain does a pair of $50,000.00 dollar motors get me that's any better than the old ... junk !

I saw on F*c*book where someone was pickin at the Supa-Star to run for $5000.
He responded to the guy, I'm over it .. you have a 130 MPH boat and I do not.
See the undeserved pickle you guys put him in ... :p :leaving:

By the way Brad, I had to go to Orlando this mornin, I took my 78 MPH pick-up truck. Between the State Troopers and traffic, that's all the faster I went. My kid could prob give ya a higher number, but I can't speak for him .. Seem's like any time I ever made a SWAG at it .. I wound up runnin over the crankshaft ... :cheers:

[Dave Strong]

Man dod this thread get derailed or what? 300x vs 300R, just depends on the boat and what makes or can handle. Alot has nothing to with the motors but how the boat was built and what motors it was designed for. 2 strokes are great and do their thing with less weight. 4 strokes have more grunt out of the hole maybe some midrange. Bla bla bla you got at 500lb tunnel thats19' long the 4 stroke sucks. Gota 29' center console 4stroke is the way to go. What motor is better??? Just depends on the hull and what you want to do with it. Not everyone can afford or has water to run what seems to bee the in thing. New stuff is fine for larger boats. Not the best thing for old school smaller boats, now what was a majority is a minority. This could go any way, my 19' would probably siink with a new 4 stroke on it, float with a 300X. 2 stroke does everything a 4 stroke does just in half the time and less weight. To each their own.

Dave

[eli]

!
[QUOTE=Chaz;3190972]. Every ... Over ... Still climbing .... ? On that day, it was a 114 MPH boat.




I was in the boat that day. Dave had about 5 mins drive time in the boat on a test ride. He was NOT doing a top speed test. He was simply trying to find the sweet spot for the trim at higher speed. We were shocked when I looked at the GPS and saw 114 when he backed off and it had a lot more rpm left in the 300R's. I really believe the boat will run close to 130 with some setup. Not sure Dave wants to find out. I personally have no real interest anymore in seeing how fast I can run a small boat. I have been close to 180 in my old 39 MTI and happy to say I lived. Anything over 100mph in any size boat is fast and bad things can happen quickly. What I will say is the 300R's are driver friendly the 28 DW is a great looking and fun boat.

with brad knowledge i,m almost positive they will have daves new ride going as fast as it should ,i got to ride in all brads boats over the years and they were all fast rides,i now own his old twister and while i too dont care about going 120 in it i still like a rip to 100 and go cruise 70 /80 all day water providing

[Chaz]

Man dod this thread get derailed or what? 300x vs 300R, just depends on the boat and what makes or can handle. Alot has nothing to with the motors but how the boat was built and what motors it was designed for. 2 strokes are great and do their thing with less weight. 4 strokes have more grunt out of the hole maybe some midrange. Bla bla bla you got at 500lb tunnel thats19' long the 4 stroke sucks. Gota 29' center console 4stroke is the way to go. What motor is better??? Just depends on the hull and what you want to do with it. Not everyone can afford or has water to run what seems to bee the in thing. New stuff is fine for larger boats. Not the best thing for old school smaller boats, now what was a majority is a minority. This could go any way, my 19' would probably siink with a new 4 stroke on it, float with a 300X. 2 stroke does everything a 4 stroke does just in half the time and less weight. To each their own.

Dave

Dave, I never said that these motors were anything other than what they were intended for. And I'm sure they do a great job at it.
But if you go back and look at the very first two post's and title of this thread you will see _-_-_ VS _-_-_ and then praise for the new and to the junkyard with everything else .. So it really should come as no surprise that there might be a bit of .. (how they say on TV) pushback. I would rather call it a difference of opinion. :)
And I have yet to see anyone get real enough to say .. Humm, they don't really run as good as expected ... Nope, just more .. You wait and see !
That would be just as bad as me sayin .. U just wait .. I'm goin 4.6 huntin with my 3.6's and when I get there .. I'm gonna hose em with another 100 shot of horn button .. but see, I don't sell Woff Tickets ... :D

[Instigator]

From OMC IN THE ‘40’s.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EVINRUDE-4-60-RACING-OUTBOARD-MOTOR/324087640812

Before someone decided God designed the Mercs.

I raced against these antiques and they were WAY fast.



458633458633

[Chaz]

I'd rather be competitive w/junk I built in my garage than win w/stuff I bought.

Gary .. the world, she's~a~changin .. :cheers:

[Dave S]

OMC war motor for pumping out leaky boats........racers used them in class Frr.....But try this....99 cid 140 on a 13.5 DeSilva......with a raker...... just think of how fast out of turns.....Butch Langdon.......

459660459660459660

[rod007]

Glad to see Mercury is getting back into the game with this line of V-8s . They may not be as light as us performance guys are use to but they are headed in the right direction . Yammy’s have taken over in my area in last 15 years, glad to see mercury get back in the game .

[Chaz]

Glad to see Mercury is getting back into the game with this line of V-8s . They may not be as light as us performance guys are use to but they are headed in the right direction . Yammy’s have taken over in my area in last 15 years, glad to see mercury get back in the game .

Can't speak for the rest of the country, but Florida is the same. 20 Yamaha's to 1 of anything else combined. Last few years, started seeing brand new Suzuki's on some old azz boats. Was in West Marine, looked at the price tag and said .... No wonder ;)
If .. no, when the Japs copy .. no, when they decide to build a better Sportmaster lower unit and put it under one of many different engine platforms they already possess, it will be the same headcount at the (small by comparison) performance gatherings as you see at the fishin-hole or sand bar .. :o

[Markus]

when they decide to build a better Sportmaster lower unit and put it under one of many different engine platforms they already possess, it will be the same headcount at the (small by comparison) performance gatherings as you see at the fishin-hole or sand bar .. :o

I expected them to do that 15 years ago. I was wrong.

Like with cars, though, the quality gap is pretty much closed now.

OMC woke up too late, but Mercury has much less to fear now than when they started their quality journey in the early nineties...<object id="__symantecPKIClientMessenger" data-supports-flavor-configuration="true" data-extension-version="1.0.1" style="display: none;"></object>__PRESENT

[powerabout]

Merc and omc had quality in the early 80's then they just let the product quality decay away as the japs were learning.
Oops too late now.
Will take years to get the market share back.
Omc and Merc also gave away overseas markets so lost some economies of scale too.
Like GM who have stopped making Rhd cars so more jap stuff will take over.

[Double Rigged]

Not sure if you all went to the boat show or not but have to disagree with your comments. Mercury owned the transoms of any performance CC, Cats and now even on Formula Boats. The 450 is a much superior engine over the 425 Yamaha weighing in at 1000lbs or so. IMO in the coming years as Mercury continues to up the HP with the weight savings until the Japanese copy what is being done they gain their market share. Not sure about overseas but here in the US for sure. The new platform is already set up to be V10 when they decide in the 600+HP range. As soon as they finalize the lower unit to handle more HP they will raise the bar again.

[powerabout]

Not sure if you all went to the boat show or not but have to disagree with your comments. Mercury owned the transoms of any performance CC, Cats and now even on Formula Boats. The 450 is a much superior engine over the 425 Yamaha weighing in at 1000lbs or so. IMO in the coming years as Mercury continues to up the HP with the weight savings until the Japanese copy what is being done they gain their market share. Not sure about overseas but here in the US for sure. The new platform is already set up to be V10 when they decide in the 600+HP range. As soon as they finalize the lower unit to handle more HP they will raise the bar again.

Sure Merc have a range of engines that are not equaled but its like saying Corvette sales are doing well compared with a Camry.
Its more then 1:20 as Chaz says...and worse worldwide

[Chaz]

They are smart enough to know that "fantasy island" boat shows have nothing in common with the real-world of middle-class America.
If Honda or Yamaha, as I said "decided" to overrun any market, they have enough money to make Ford vs Ferrari look small by comparison .. ;)
I'm sure they have had a Sporty type lower unit for 15+ years. The bean counters more than likely have done an exhaustive analysis of producing decals that say "racing" on the side of them, and what it would cost to keep them going over the period of wty, and said "Ahh U flukkin cla-zzzy" .. :)

[mjw930]

Yamaha and Suzuki have performance lowers in production. Sportmaster "type" lowers on the Yamaha VMax SHO and Torquemaster type lowers on the Suzuki 250 SS (specifically for the bass boat market). These companies build what sells and honestly, they don't need to do anything in the hyper speed market, it's just not that large when they are selling almost everything they can produce into the main stream market which isn't 1:20, more like 1:1000 ratio.

[Double Rigged]

Sure Merc have a range of engines that are not equaled but its like saying Corvette sales are doing well compared with a Camry.
Its more then 1:20 as Chaz says...and worse worldwide

Not sure I understand your reasoning as you cannot compare production of corvette to a camry as the two are not in the same class. No doubt Yamaha has more motors worldwide I agree. Mercury offers a wide range of engines just like Yamaha in smaller HP versions also.
Just saying there has been a shift on the on the docks from a few years ago. We do a lot of work with Intrepid who I consider a non-hp boat builder. Over the years there the majority of motors went from Yamaha to Mercury with the I6 Verados back to Yamaha with the 425 and now we are seeing more boats coming in with V8's from Mercury and you could also include a few Seven Marine packages.

[BUZZIN' DOZEN]

All I want to know is, what's the best oil to run in the 4 strokes? :leaving::leaving::leaving:

[SS Minnow]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/40/e1/f1/40e1f1ab95eda4a37d7fdd8d8461c626.jpg

[Z06man]

Ron was correct about Miami don't know about the rest of the world , there was more big merc's on CC than last year . And that is the majority of what is going out the door now. I do know of 1 CC company that switched from the 425 Yamaha to 450 Merc due to weight alone . I see tons of small yamaha in the Islands/ Mexico and down into S America. But Mercury is doing well in the big motor market . Both Yamaha and Merc have had trouble meeting demand .I don't know can you blame that on Trump