electric catamaran boat to set world record

[CUDA]

Please don't lose any sleep...

https://geelongindy.com.au/news/28-0...ause-revealed/

[John S]

Looks like the horse is pulling that cart now, eh?

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/27/ev-c...tes-plans.html

[pcrussell50]

Looks like the horse is pulling that cart now, eh?

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/27/ev-c...tes-plans.html

​Your article:

• Earlier this year, the Biden administration allocated $5 billion to states to fund EV chargers over five years along interstate highways as part of the bipartisan infrastructure package.

Shame we have to squander taxpayer money for this. Seems to me like taxpayer money could be better spent than on subsidizing rich man's toys.

-Peter

[John S]

@pcrussel50- Being from the industry you're in, I got a good chuckle outta that comment. I'm old enough to remember Northwest airlines. Your industry has your hats in your hands enough times, I need to have my flip flops on to count. And automobiles started out as rich man's toys. See how that worked out? Do the math.

[pcrussell50]

@pcrussel50- Being from the industry you're in, I got a good chuckle outta that comment. I'm old enough to remember Northwest airlines. Your industry has your hats in your hands enough times, I need to have my flip flops on to count. And automobiles started out as rich man's toys. See how that worked out? Do the math.

You speak in riddles. Hard to do math with that.

But here's some straight talk math for you: Tesla (rich man's toy) sells more cars in a year than Nissan has sold Leafs (economy BEV) in 12 years.

-Peter

[Brad Zastrow]

Here is some interesting math for you. My wife drives a Tesla model S that cost $60 month in electricity. An equivalent large luxury sedan would cost about $400 a month in gas to drive the same distance. That helps justify driving a "rich man's toy" as you call it. If you finance a car, $340 month in fuel savings go a long way in buying a nice car. Not to mention the low maintenance costs of owning an EV.

[David - WI]

Short term gain... eventually she will have to pay her share for road maintenance (that comes from gas taxes now) and $60 electric will be $300 if Europe is any indication.

[pcrussell50]

Here is some interesting math for you. My wife drives a Tesla model S that cost $60 month in electricity. An equivalent large luxury sedan would cost about $400 a month in gas to drive the same distance. That helps justify driving a "rich man's toy" as you call it. If you finance a car, $340 month in fuel savings go a long way in buying a nice car. Not to mention the low maintenance costs of owning an EV.

Oh mate, it's not how I call it. It's what it is. We were talking about putting taxpayers on the hook to pay for charging infrastructure for rich man's toys. Tesla sells TWICE as many cars in just one year as Nissan has sold Leafs in 12 years. If that doesn't tell you all you need to know about who is buying BEVs and who isn't, I don't know how to put it to you any other way. For another data point, the median price of a Model S is $120,500 and the median price of a Leaf is $33,000.

BTW, cocktail napkin math: $400/month for gasoline* at $4/gal is 100 gallons a month of gasoline. If you get 20mpg (our BMW ///M5 gets more than that on the freeway, less in the city), you're talking about 2000 miles a month/24,000 miles a year. (Gulp!) We try to keep our ///M5 under 4k miles/year and do the rest of our driving in something more boring and economical. Either way, I'd never buy a Model S to be a 24,000 mile a year daily driven dog. I would consider it far too nice for that and I'm not even shopping for one.

Curious ... How many miles do you plan to put on your Model S before you trade it in for a new one?

*I also worked your claimed numbers for what you pay for charging your Model S, based on 20kW average consumption and the average cost per kWh in Chicago (which is actually right about the national average, this surprised me), and it's a good match for your claims.

===

BTW, Apologies if your phone aurally notifies you of S&F posts. I'm flying the islands this month and it's only 8pm here in my hotel room in Honolulu. I realize it's 0100 in the midwest. Because of this, Edmunds has defaulted me to Hawaii, where gas is over $5/gal and come up with this:
Edmunds Cost to Drive & Tested Range

Cost to DriveCost to drive estimates for the 2022 Tesla Model S Plaid 4dr Sedan AWD (electric DD) and comparison vehicles are based on 15,000 miles per year (with a mix of 55% city and 45% highway driving) and energy estimates of $0.45 per kWh for electricity and $5.67 per gallon average in Hawaii.

Monthly estimates based on costs in Hawaii

$163/mo
Model S Plaid
<select data-tracking-id="style_select" data-no-refresh="false" id="sel-4474230332058761" name="cost-trim-select" aria-label="Select style" class="cost-select border-0 rounded h-100 w-100 pos-a left-0 top-0 text-left" style="box-sizing: inherit; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; touch-action: manipulation; border-top-left-radius: 0.25rem; border-top-right-radius: 0.25rem; border-bottom-right-radius: 0.25rem; border-bottom-left-radius: 0.25rem; width: 141.5px; height: 16px; -webkit-appearance: none; cursor: pointer; z-index: 0; border-width: 0px !important; position: absolute !important; top: 0px !important; left: 0px !important;"><option class="" value="4dr Sedan AWD (electric DD)" style="box-sizing: inherit; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased;">4dr Sedan AWD (electric DD) (Most Popular) - $104,990 MSRP</option><option selected="" class="" value="Plaid 4dr Sedan AWD (electric DD)" style="box-sizing: inherit; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased;">Plaid 4dr Sedan AWD (electric DD) - $135,990 MSRP</option></select>

vs

$312/mo
Avg. Large Car

Your electricity rates and gas prices will be different in the midwest, but the comparison is valid... Surprisingly, the BEV is more than half the monthly operating cost of the average "large car". I would have thought the BEV saving was greater than that.

-Peter

[PanRonnie]

this is kind of a bummer!

[Brad Zastrow]

First of all, premium gas is about $5 gal in Illinois. Second, our electric rates are much less than Hawaii. We have these really cool nuclear plants here. I would assume Hawaii is much higher than any other state. Why have a nice car you do not drive for fear of putting miles on it? As for putting taxpayers on the hook for infrastructure how about roads and bridges? How about the taxpayer that does not have a car? Look the future is in electric cars for most people. To help climate change we need to get to much lower emissions. The government is smart and pushing that along. The fires out west, the high heat and the insane hurricanes are proof. A category 4 is bearing on Florida right now. I agree towing with an EV truck is not in the cards yet. Not yet but, technology will fix that. The Automakers are going full throttle on EV's.

[Shaun K]

To help climate change we need to get to much lower emissions. The government is smart and pushing that along. A category 4 is bearing on Florida right now. .

Florida never had a hurricane before "climate change" though, right? This is the 1st and probably last of season btw. Sorry I don't believe in the carbon thing either or your "smart" government. Especially your state Brad. This place is full of scientist . Regards

[bouyhead]

If anyone thinks the weather will be less severe if we get more EV's on the road give me a shout, I've got a bridge for sale.

[pcrussell50]

First of all, premium gas is about $5 gal in Illinois. Second, our electric rates are much less than Hawaii. We have these really cool nuclear plants here. I would assume Hawaii is much higher than any other state.

Oh, man. I was hoping you would get it. Let me help. It's not what it costs, it's the ratio of the cost of BEV to "other larger car". Both costs will be higher in places where gas and electricity are high, and lower in places where gas and electricity are lower. But the ratio will remain about the same. Based on Edmunds, the cost of driving a Model S is about 2/3 the cost of driving "other large car".

Why have a nice car you do not drive for fear of putting miles on it?

Nothing wrong with having a rich man's toy. Nothing at all. And putting a lot of miles on it just makes it even more of a rich man's toy by way of reducing it's residual value faster. Still nothing at all wrong with that... Unless you start trying to convince yourself that it's not a rich man's toy. Or worse, try to tell others that it's not. I 100% support rich men buying their toys and enjoying them as they wish. I would even go to war to protect that right, I support it so much.

As for putting taxpayers on the hook for infrastructure how about roads and bridges? How about the taxpayer that does not have a car?

There are already more cars registered and on the road in the USA than there are people old enough to drive them. And that's not even including people who are too old and don't drive any more. The problem is BEVs. There are hardly any of them, and the ones there are, by a very very very large margin, are rich man's toys.

Look the future is in electric cars for most people.

"Most people" aren't buying them despite the fact they've been around for a long time. Tesla sells TWICE as many battery cars in a SINGLE YEAR as Nissan has in 12 years. The ordinary bloke who wants a Tesla but can't afford it, clearly isn't buying a Leaf or a Bolt. If he can't afford his rich man's toy Tesla, he is buying a gas car, as shown very clearly in the numbers. At this point, since more affordable BEVs have been around a while and nobody is taking, it's probably going to take some more government force to get ordinary people into ordinary (non-Tesla, non-Porsche/Audi/Jag) BEV's. CA is doing it by force. The eight other states that use CA's CARB rules probably will too. Continued punitive regulatory policies against fuels will help, too. With enough government force, people will eventually comply, and you will have your future where electric cars are for most people.

To help climate change we need to get to much lower emissions. The government is smart and pushing that along. The fires out west, the high heat and the insane hurricanes are proof. A category 4 is bearing on Florida right now.

LOL. Are you someone who blindly believes what you read? Or do you apply BS tests to what you read? For example, when you made your claims about how much cheaper you Model S was to operate than "other large luxury sedan", I immediately began running numbers (BS testing), matching your claimed costs to known metrics, because that's what I do. (They were a pretty good match too, so I believe you). There is a lot of BS testing that the ordinary person can do over global warming claims. Sadly, most people don't. And that goes for both believers and doubters. I have found most ordinary people on both sides to be astonishingly ignorant on the subject. Each side believing the shamans professing what he wants to believe. BUT... it doesn't have to be that way. There is much the ordinary person can do so as not to rely on faith. Be honest now, without googling, can you describe the greenhouse effect? Without googling, do you know how much of the atmosphere is CO2? You don't have to answer here. Just ask yourself quietly. Then (if you don't already know), google the answers for yourself. And then think about it. You can also BS test fire frequency and acreage burned, and frequency of named storms. You don't have to rely on what you are told. Especially named storms. They are right there on wikipedia among other sources. Then make your own conclusions. The most severe Atlantic hurricane (both size and intensity) to make landfall was Carla, 61 years ago. There are only three of the top ten most severe hurricanes that were even in the 2000's and the latest is 2008. The top three most severe were in the 1960's. The top four most intense (intense can be small, but with strong winds) were: in 1980, 1988, 2005, and 1932. There is simply nothing in the data that links storm severity or intensity (there is a difference), to CO2 concentration in the atmosphere, which has been going up steadily.

I agree towing with an EV truck is not in the cards yet. Not yet but, technology will fix that.

This segues into what I was saying about BS testing... Do you just believe this in your heart of hearts? Or do you actually know what technology might come along to "fix" it? Hint, it's not motor technology. It's battery technology. But Lithium ion has been the top dog for thirty years. Any further gains will be small and come at increased fire risk. The towing problem won't be solved without something new. But what will it's replacement be, and when will we see it? And why have we seen nothing better in 30 years despite the finest minds in tech working full time on it? Thirty years is an eternity in tech, and yet... nothing. This is a problem that has proven to be far too big to be just waived off.

-Peter

[Brad Zastrow]

You clearly hate change and EV's. OK
The best selling Tesla is a Model 3 starting at $46,990. Another interesting fact. The average price of a new car today is $47,000. It goes to say the Tesla Model 3 is average priced. Hardly a toy or a rich man's car. I am done with this tired conversation.

[JPEROG]

Bottom line is that we should be concentrating on Electric assist. The performance is incredible the fuel consumption is much less and they don't kill the current grid. Emissions needs to begin with the largest violators and the U.S. is no where near the top of that list. If the rest of the world had emission outputs close to ours it would be a giant step forward. I sincerely hope that we don't see the day where we are like Europe and start killing the value of classic cars and other vintage motorsports but its a "monkey see monkey do" world of bureaucrats that control our path. All I can say is vote accordingly....

FJB

Joe