Right to repair versus Company trade secrets.

**Lake X Kid** · 07-22-2021, 11:55 AM

“The Federal Trade Commission will more aggressively police the makers of computers, phones and other products that prevent customers from repairing devices themselves or getting them repaired by third parties, the agency said Wednesday, in a unanimous vote it said will “restore the right to repair.”

“… manufacturers use a variety of methods—such as using adhesives that make parts difficult to replace, limiting the availability of parts and tools, or making diagnostic software unavailable—that have made consumer products harder to fix and maintain.

The policy statement notes that such restrictions on repairs of devices, equipment, and other products have increased the burden on consumers and businesses. In addition, manufacturers and sellers may be restricting competition for repairs in a number of ways that might violate the law.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/graison...h=e5ac58f1a400

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/pres...r-restrictions

**Lake X Kid** · 07-22-2021, 12:01 PM

Apple and the automotive industry, will have to be more accommodating in releasing software diagnosis & repairs to the small shops in our neighborhoods.

Trade secrets might motivate some giants like Apple to go to court, and challenge the FTC.

**LakeFever** · 07-22-2021, 12:17 PM

You buy it you own it. Selling duplicates is one thing. Repairing your own junk is completely another. Absurd

**Bodhi** · 07-22-2021, 12:37 PM

Just saw a video where farmers were saying John deere is using Un serviceable software on combines and other heavy equipment. I've noticed the farmers in my area are not buying anything new, they are bringing very old tractors out of storage and getting alot of second hand equipment back to life to avoid dealer nonsense.

**XstreamVking** · 07-22-2021, 01:49 PM

All the new stuff has imbedded software that tattles on you if you even think about repairing or modifying any thing on it.

**Euroski** · 07-22-2021, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Lake X Kid

Apple and the automotive industry, will have to be more accommodating in releasing software diagnosis & repairs to the small shops in our neighborhoods.

Trade secrets might motivate some giants like Apple to go to court, and challenge the FTC.

I retired from VW dealer in 2015 and at that time anyone could purchase any special tools, diagnosis tools such as the notebook computer system with software ready to use, including repair information manuals(online). VW hasn't printed manuals for many years. Most through snap-on for purchased at $25/week(LOL.

VAS6150E, Professional Diagnostics Laptop - VW Authorized Tools and Equipment (snapon.com)

**XstreamVking** · 07-22-2021, 02:47 PM

You will not be allowed the same software access from JD, ford, vw or any other mfg. that they have installed in their own proprietary scanning equipment at the dealer. That's a fact.

**Whaaaaat** · 07-22-2021, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by XstreamVking

You will not be allowed the same software access from JD, ford, vw or any other mfg. that they have installed in their own proprietary scanning equipment at the dealer. That's a fact.

100% true. Worked for a nationwide truck company for many years. They negotiated to do there own warranty work on Mack trucks. They gave us "dealer" software for diagnostics. There were big chunks of software missing from our version. When I would call them, I was always told what was missing was dealer only.. I finally got most everything from them. It was a fight.

Plus heavy trucks and equipment have government mandated software in them related to emissions. Was told the government states that portion of the code be locked and unchangeable.

Anything with DEF in it will go into limp mode then eventually be limited to 5mph if the truck sees that the system isn't working or is empty. This is mandated by epa.

**Whaaaaat** · 07-22-2021, 03:44 PM

Over the years I have met a lot of dealership mechanics. Very few impressed me with there knowledge or ability. Where do you think all these "technical university" graduates go get there first job? Get a new career in 6 months. Be a mechanic. Just because the dealerships have the tools and software doesn't mean anybody working there knows how to use them.

What ends up happening is a brand new truck with a issue will end up in dealership jail while the techs there change parts on it until they figure it out.

I'm sure mercury is there same way.

If it's programmable, and your not allowed access to the tools needed to program it, then you don't own it! Your leasing it.

**XstreamVking** · 07-22-2021, 03:49 PM

And there's diesel guys on the interweb that have been busted for bypassing the def system and disabling the computers "watch dog" section. Guys in the marine bus that have been threatened or even busted for "flashing" the computers in the new engines. I have a 2021 ferd truck, you mess with it and it reports you to ferd. They don't tell you that normally. But, they don't have the tech on the truck for the heck of it. (why they need 100's of chips) You speed or drive recklessly? next time the truck comes in for service it's scanned for stored data. Do they send it to the ins. co's and ferd corporate? You bet your sweet bippie...

**JPEROG** · 07-22-2021, 04:16 PM

Two things regarding hidden software. 1. Mercury sees more then the dealer does when E.C.U.s are downloaded to them. 2. I was put on a "Valet mode" that limited one of my recent rental trucks with Enterprise due to past speed history that was tracked and logged via. GPS. I had to go to my friends dealership to have it removed so I could keep up with traffic.

Technology is just great "for some people"....

Joe

**Whaaaaat** · 07-22-2021, 05:15 PM

If what you say about mercury is true it should be a huge issue for owners. If you bought the engine then you own the data stored in it. If mercury wants to see that data say for R and D, any other reason other than what the owner hired the dealership to do, then the engine owner needs to be justly compensated. There basically steeling valuable research data from unwitting consumers.

**powerabout** · 07-22-2021, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Lake X Kid

Apple and the automotive industry, will have to be more accommodating in releasing software diagnosis & repairs to the small shops in our neighborhoods.

Trade secrets might motivate some giants like Apple to go to court, and challenge the FTC.

The big issue for engines is the manufactures have to ensure the consumer cant alter the emission regs. The EPA is what has caused all this.
Then we move to single ICU in cars that has steering, braking,stability control and emissions code in them, scary stuff if anyone can tamper with it?

**powerabout** · 07-22-2021, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Whaaaaat

If what you say about mercury is true it should be a huge issue for owners. If you bought the engine then you own the data stored in it. If mercury wants to see that data say for R and D, any other reason other than what the owner hired the dealership to do, then the engine owner needs to be justly compensated. There basically steeling valuable research data from unwitting consumers.

Read the fine print from the tech industry, most of the stuff you buy you have bought a license that comes with conditions, you dont own it, you own a license.
Any manufacturer can do that and I think they will move to that model, every 12 months you pay to keep your car running...sounds ridiculous but its in other industries and they all do it you have nowhere to go.
Then at 10 years old and sorry no more license so its scrap.

**powerabout** · 07-22-2021, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Whaaaaat

If what you say about mercury is true it should be a huge issue for owners. If you bought the engine then you own the data stored in it. If mercury wants to see that data say for R and D, any other reason other than what the owner hired the dealership to do, then the engine owner needs to be justly compensated. There basically steeling valuable research data from unwitting consumers.

You own a phone..lol no you bought a license to collect data for the company who made the phone...