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01-24-2023, 12:41 PM #721Team Member
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Getting back on to the topic of this thread title... Amazing, eh?
I'm having the devil of a time finding out more information (tech information that I can run some math numbers on), about the Hellkat battery catamaran. Both the original article posted by Noli and this one I found say that it made it's 100+ mph run using a pair of 180hp motors. Now, I've never had a big fast cat. My biggest boat is 18 feet and goes about 65 with a 150hp motor, just me in it, and no bimini top. It goes about 55 with the wife and kids and all our gear and the bimini top up.
So...
-I know cats and tunnels are efficient, but Isn't 360 hp a little thin to push a 32 foot cat over 100mph?
-Someone here at S&F said that they were running the 180hp motors over-clocked to put out 360hp each for 720hp total, Which makes 100+ sound more believable. Is that something you heard through the grapevine, or something the rest of us can actually read? And can you share a link?
-Someone else here, (Chaz, I think) said that the boat was towed to the starting line, and still nosed over due to battery drain before the whole 3/4 mile run was complete. Is that true? And was that heard through the grapevine, or can the rest of us read it?*
I found no detail about the installed battery capacity, but if it was like say, the Tesla 100KWh pack, that could theoretically sustain 720hp for ten minutes, from 100% charge, to zero. I say "theoretically", because car battery packs never see a use case where they would go from 100% full, to 100% empty at full power the whole time. Those kinds of drain rates are a fire risk. Also, a 100KWh pack with all the fire safeties in place would weigh 1200 lbs, or about the weight of three or four 180hp electric motors. So maybe they used a smaller capacity battery? But smaller capacity batteries don't tolerate full power discharges for as long, before they overheat and catch fire. Basically, there is a lot that is not known or that I can't find, about the batteries they used. Does anybody have a link to any specific battery specs?
Also, on youtube, there is only one video, a promo from the people who made the boat. Doesn't that seem odd for such a monumental achievement? In fact, the whole things seems rather thinly covered for all the fuss that was made about it.
*In their promo video, it seems plausible that the boat actually did make the whole three quarter mile run without nosing over.
-Peter"padded wonder"
__________
the wet:
Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha
the dry:
2003 bmw ///M5
1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
and a handful of clunkers
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01-24-2023, 01:08 PM #722
If you want truth not charlies FABLE
call Shaun Torrente the driver of that boat
239 703 9400
https://shauntorrenteracing.com/collections/allWe have invented the world; WE see
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01-24-2023, 01:16 PM #723Team Member
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Don't want to bug a businessman with a phone call asking him for random details about a thing he doesn't sell, and that his employer might consider proprietary, when he could be working or helping out customers. It would be rude to put him on the spot like that. So I went to his web site. And there is nothing in the way of answers to the questions I have asked. If he has information to share, and a story to tell, he should put it up on his web site.
Right now, it seems as if there is nothing out there in the way of tech specs, and that Vision and the other parties involved, want it that way. Given the mathematics and physics of what we are talking about here, and that they are trying/needing to gin up interest, that is not surprising. Still, I hold out hope.
-PeterLast edited by pcrussell50; 01-24-2023 at 02:32 PM.
"padded wonder"
__________
the wet:
Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha
the dry:
2003 bmw ///M5
1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
and a handful of clunkers
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David - WI liked this post
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01-24-2023, 02:50 PM #724Team Member
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Doing a little more digging on the Vision Marine web site, and using math on the specs they give:
Vision Marine themselves, is smart. The only boats they sell, are displacement hull boats. For $55,000 You can pile them with tons of battery weight, and putz around the harbor at 5mph for hours like that with your wife or girlfriend, eating cheese and drinking wine. https://visionmarinetechnologies.com/volt-en/
Their 180hp outboard "system" which includes the motor and two, 35KWh batteries (enough to go from 100% to zero in about half an hour if you are going full speed), is not available for sale to the public. Of course you don't have to use all 180hp. You can go half power for twice as long, about an hour before you are dead in the water. (Of course, you will have to use less than that if you have to idle back through the no wake zone and get yourself up onto the trailer with a few minutes to spare).
Here is the link to that page if anyone is interested.
Again, they only sell the 180hp outboard as a system, to OEM boat makers. You and I can't get it. But it Looks like Four Winns has bitten, and says they will offer this drivetrain on their 22 foot H2 hull sometime this summer. They claim a top speed of 40mph. The petro version of this boat weighs 4100 lbs, can carry ten people, and 250hp. It will be interesting to see the weight, price, load carrying, specs for the 180hp battery version. Especially the price. Because Vision's 18 foot, 5mph displacement hull boat is $50-55K USD. But Four Winns does not have any specs up yet. Which seems odd if they are to begin selling them this summer. I have no facts to back it, but I have my doubts this will come off on schedule. Here if anyone wants to put money down and get on the waiting list.
-PeterLast edited by pcrussell50; 01-24-2023 at 11:16 PM.
"padded wonder"
__________
the wet:
Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha
the dry:
2003 bmw ///M5
1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
and a handful of clunkers
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David - WI liked this post
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01-24-2023, 09:35 PM #725Team Member
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Originally Posted by CUDA;[URL="tel:3375592"
Ion thrusters with their extremely low thrust, will only work in space, where there is no drag, and over very very very long time spans, were even an ounce or two of thrust can build up a lot of speed... eventually... over many years of continuous operation.
Apologies if you already knew this, but ion thrusters are something that will have ZERO application to our recreation or transportation lives or any kind of propulsion in atmosphere and gravity.
-PeterLast edited by pcrussell50; 01-25-2023 at 03:26 PM.
"padded wonder"
__________
the wet:
Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha
the dry:
2003 bmw ///M5
1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
and a handful of clunkers
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laser_ED liked this post
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01-24-2023, 10:46 PM #726
Well comodeadore, I asked a question about how much extra power the AC/heater used. Most would answer 5% - 25% more an hour, but you say .. a little bit. Then say something about people talking about things they don't know about. He11 you own one and haven't a clue how much extra battery it takes ... so I'll take it that you were talking about yourself ..
I have no problem 4-strokes. I've owned at least one ... for the last 54 years. My problem is when "I'm told, I am not allowed to own a two stroke" See the difference, or have you been brainwashed into thinking this is no longer America ??
Smelly, smokey, icky-poo ... two strokes .. LMAO .. Biotch .. don't cut a corner off you man card ... cut that ****** in half ..
Two years ago, gas was cheap again. FJB declared war on fossil fuel .. that's why people are gettin shafted at the pump ... period !
I do have agree, people in big cities don't know how to drive .. it seems they would rather leave the house and park in the middle of streets and highways.
Before you send your kin folk down here, you should teach them that we only have one shade of green. When it does turn green that means it's time to go ..
So for those that can't drive, maybe a golf cart is the perfect thing for them.
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50 ... once again CRUP is wrong, However you just about quoted Joe P's exact words who was there and witnessed the run. I trust he remembers every inch of that run ..
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As far as "everybody want's four stroke outboards" I only saw two boats with dunce caps .. the rest had crew cuts ..
Gutfeld will be on in 15 minutes ... I gotta go ...
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laser_ED liked this post
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01-25-2023, 11:23 PM #727
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01-26-2023, 01:44 AM #728
Shaun said the day after the 104 MPH run they ran 109, started at 97 % battery ended up 83 % and could have made another run easly, all on $5.00 of electric, normal shore
power for charging and this year plans on running faster than ANY outboard so that means 130 ish is their goal, COOL
https://youtu.be/_s_MdvHaPdQWe have invented the world; WE see
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01-26-2023, 07:46 AM #729Screaming And Flying!
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More power to them..... Nice to see that some people have lot's of disposable income. Cause they sure are throwing it away.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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01-26-2023, 08:41 AM #7305000 RPM
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GM has seen the light and with their 1 billion to ICE development.
It is very cool and fun to watch but it has no practical use as they display. We have been on the LiPo deal for 30 years now and it appears solid state is not the game changer everyone promises it will be.
Some day energy storage will be there though and then it will become practical.TJ @ Baker Engineering
Tuff 24 300xs
Tuff 16 90 Yammie
3.75@199mph with LSX power!!!
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pcrussell50 thanked for this post
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01-26-2023, 09:29 AM #731Member
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Thank you Brad Zastrow
"It is too easy to fact check you. You pick and choose your information to suit whatever conspiracy theory you are interested in. The automakers are going EV on many cars as the public is tired of gas prices. The Tesla uses a heat A/C pump. So, the cold weather is not really an issue on battery life. Extreme cold can affect the battery range a small amount. But I do not live in the Antarctic. There is always someone who talks about things they know nothing about and reports it as fact. I own a Tesla and it is not an issue. It could be long time before EV's replace trucks that tow or boats that need a lot of power but for a daily driver car or truck they are going to be major part of the market in the next few years. Now to address your worry of why consumers are buying 4 stroke OB's it's because they want them, including me. It is not a government play to force 4 strokes down our throat. More power, better fuel economy and better reliability. No smelly smoke to deal with on the older two strokes. The O/B market has exploded because of the new engines."
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01-26-2023, 10:51 AM #732Team Member
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Thank you for contributing. It sounds like you do your diligence in keeping informed. A large thread needs some people who are grounded in reality.
GM’s investment: The 10,000lb SUV is almost upon us. Yay, lithium!!!
Solid state: (According to Wikipedia): If you think lithium ion is expensive try SSB: ($100,000 for 20Ah), $500,000 for a Tesla capacity battery… JUST the battery, not the rest of the car. And so fragile that the torque on the chassis from angling into your driveway would break it. It’s also old technology. Some of the first batteries of any kind were SSB’s. The first SSBs came around in the 1800’s. They never made it, for the same reasons they are struggling today. Cost and fragility.
Yes, Cudes posted a link to some car company in China that claimed back in Fall 2022 that they would be selling cars with SSBs by late 2022 early 2023. I feel like if that had happened and was successful, it would be worldwide headlines. Cudes? You posted the link? Any news? And why China? Why not in the West?
Lithium is running into the end of it’s road. Maybe the future is SSB? But it seems like a rough go for it like it has been for the past 200 years that SSB has existed.
-PeterLast edited by pcrussell50; 01-26-2023 at 12:04 PM.
"padded wonder"
__________
the wet:
Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha
the dry:
2003 bmw ///M5
1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
and a handful of clunkers
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01-26-2023, 11:12 AM #733
Everything in that article was about SPACE exploration, I did not equate it to boating, this thread went sideways 3 months ago
You pick and choose, to fit your narrative, from what I read up 7KW which is over 9HP in space with no drag is special, powered by the sun, no clouds in space
Sorry new tech is too slow for you but that's life, your crossflows are archaic but that's you and no one is knocking them, 1981 to 1985 I was a fan also, MVP racing
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-22789-7
Who said it has anything to do with life on earth? but you? Solar Power is the subject
They just hit an Asteroid to test an earth saving program to save all of us, they keep track of the big ones and are finally developing a way to save us in case one is headed
our way and they used these to make numerous corrections and made it happen, Asteroids move very fast up to 64,000 MPH, quite a feat, bah humbug.We have invented the world; WE see
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01-26-2023, 12:02 PM #734Team Member
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Uh yes. This is what I said. But it's nothing new. Ion thrusters were conceived in the early 1900's, tested in the 1950's or sooner, and actually tested in space, 59 years ago in 1964.
You, as a known fanboi of batteries and futuristic things that you hope or dream or think are practically on our doorstep, post this picture of something that looks like a badass electric high thrust rocket or afterburner and people might be misled into thinking that, well, electric rockets of wide utility are practically on our doorstep. But yes, ion thrusters are a great way forward for unmanned deep space probes with missions that span decades.
And, uh by the way... I didn't pick and choose to talk about ion thrusters that produce fractions of an ounce of thrust, in an electric boat thread... You did.
-Peter"padded wonder"
__________
the wet:
Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha
the dry:
2003 bmw ///M5
1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
and a handful of clunkers
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David - WI liked this post
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01-26-2023, 01:27 PM #735
If someone believed this had to do with boats, they must be incapable of simple reasoning, because these are the first words
The path to the Moon, Mars, and beyond will require a fleet of spacecraft in many different shapes and sizes, including everything from massive rockets that produce millions of pounds of thrust to pioneering small electric propulsion thrusters that fit in the palm of your hand.
For decades, innovators at NASA’s Glenn Research Center have been developing large, high-power electric propulsion (EP) systems that harness the power of the Sun to energize inert gases and turn them into extremely efficient thrust. Higher fuel efficiency means less propellant is needed, lowering launch costs while allowing spacecraft designers to reduce overall spacecraft weight to carry more payload mass, like technology demonstrations or more powerful scientific instruments.
The agency’s primary EP efforts have centered on large exploration and science missions, like the 7-kilowatt (kW) NEXT-C gridded-ion system currently flying on the Double Asteroid Redirection Test mission and the 12-kW Advanced Electric Propulsion System used on the Power and Propulsion Element for NASA’s lunar orbiting space station known as Gateway.
You talk like mister knowitall but don't read what your rereferring to ?
then call me out ?
Looks like everything you own is a clunker,
Maybe change your screen name to
CLUNKER old and run down
But Mr.KNOWITALL is more aptWe have invented the world; WE see
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