Jasper Fuel Questions

**E-tecjr** · 10-22-2015, 07:24 PM

rich, it was not a NEW tank, just one that has not had any fuel in it for 2 yrs, kept inside. filter is on motor not in the equation, we don't cheat, we followed the fuel rules to a t. trust me, we will find it, and as someone else said, hopefully that's not a can of worms someone wants open. and I saw patches posted something about knowing about what fuel failed by, how does someone not affected by the results know more about it that the ones that did????The fuel truck guy even dumped some fuel when we got it because he was worried about contamination, WHAT????? I was told we passed digitron on sat, which was Fridays bought fuel did Saturdays fuel get tested? did we pass on Saturday? We put a gallon of Saturday bought fuel, the one the truck guy was worried about, in on sunday, so by knowing the numbers it would answer one of our questions, its just a simple thing we want answered. If you have to worry about what your tank is made of, what was in it 2 years ago, etc etc,why frickn bother givin up your money for this???? so Im done with this cuz I know I wont get answers, I will not be put in this position again I AM done with this.........no more racing with these guys

**DOC W** · 10-22-2015, 07:44 PM

I myself removed my filter on Friday because I couldn't find another and flushed my tank both days and still failed to be claimed a cheater over just facing one race and wanting to have fun if straight bs I have an Allison bass boat and put an aluminum tank in it acoupke weeks before the race broke the motor in and raced on 112 and Alysn oil but yet just Sunday's fuel failed I Don't understand and probly never will ! I am not mad or Upset at odba for there decisions because me and my grandfather have had to to the same thing to racers when we put on races ! But there is no way I'll be labeled a cheat from someone that knows nothing about me and mu love of the sport ! And that's one thing about odba they never ever claimed the people that failed where cheating it's the parking lot computer racers talking bad about who ever they can

**patchesII** · 10-22-2015, 07:46 PM

I didn't hear any specific numbers or who had what. Only that some were really out there on the two tests.
I guess I'll bow out of the conversation because I'm not subject to the fuel test. I only got involved in the conversation to try and correct some misconceptions and clear a few things up about the process. I've quite enjoyed my years of racing with ODBA and DSRA and I will try to clear things up when I can about the clubs

**patchesII** · 10-22-2015, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by DOC W

I myself removed my filter on Friday because I couldn't find another and flushed my tank both days and still failed to be claimed a cheater over just facing one race and wanting to have fun if straight bs I have an Allison bass boat and put an aluminum tank in it acoupke weeks before the race broke the motor in and raced on 112 and Alysn oil but yet just Sunday's fuel failed I Don't understand and probly never will ! I am not mad or Upset at odba for there decisions because me and my grandfather have had to to the same thing to racers when we put on races ! But there is no way I'll be labeled a cheat from someone that knows nothing about me and mu love of the sport ! And that's one thing about odba they never ever claimed the people that failed where cheating it's the parking lot computer racers talking bad about who ever they can

You're absolutely right Doc. I haven't heard one person from ODBA say anybody was cheating. Only that they failed fuel tech. Everybody reading these posts needs to understand that a failed fuel tech doesn't necessarily mean the racer was cheating. That is a huge misconception I've seen running through these threads. As far as ODBA is concerned they can't get into the test failing because it has residual pump gas in it or a good dose of propylene, only that it differs from the baseline.

**DOC W** · 10-22-2015, 08:03 PM

i plan on continuing to race acouple races a year and simply to have fun knowing I can't hang in the points and make every race I do it just for fun and I really do appreciate all the odba officials that i have known a very long time since I was a kid for talking to me after all this . Hope everyone an move on from this and learn I know I did and I'll do whatever I can to make sure I'm not caught up in this crap again

**wicheckmate** · 10-22-2015, 08:52 PM

Again all i'm asking for is the numbers of my fuel. Next year I will get a fuel test BEFORE i go in the water and afterwards and I will stand by my fuel sample till it is done. This might take awhile since i'm not allowed out of the boat before i hit the scale per the rules But we will stay in the boat and watch them test it from the tech area.

**RichS** · 10-22-2015, 11:31 PM

When dealing with technology technique is everything. I'm only trying to help... At this point my dog isn't in this fight (1 armed gimpy ain't up to fight ANYTHING right now). But if I can work back up to it I hope to get there! I doubt if the samples are saved.

**olboatman** · 10-23-2015, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by vnemous

What are you thanking Chaz for????? It aint his cooler

I was thankin him for postin the pic.....wise guy!!!!

Gary

**97 TWISTER** · 10-23-2015, 06:56 AM

Not trying to whip the "dead horse" lol but as mentioned above did anybody of these guys fail fuel on Sat??? I think most of all people just want to figure out what went wrong where to prevent it from happening again. I know personally know the extent that wicheckmate went though to try and ensure no contamination.

**vnemous** · 10-23-2015, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by olboatman

I was thankin him for postin the pic.....wise guy!!!!

Gary

Its not even his picture

**mikesufka** · 10-23-2015, 07:24 AM

I heard Cleinmark put Viagra in his gas ????

MDS

**Riverratt** · 10-23-2015, 07:31 AM

I think what has most of the people confused is if it was because you didn't flush the tank properly then how did they pass Saturday and then they added more of the correct fuel from the truck and failed Sunday? If it was due to improper flushing it should have showed up Saturday correct? I am in no way pointing any fingers and am not saying anybody did anything wrong but is it possible humidity could have affected the fuel or anything like that?

**CUDA** · 10-23-2015, 08:15 AM

I have never heard of a fuel tech problem in ODBA before ?
Some make it sound like this has been going on for years ?
Please explain...

I know for fact that some racers have passed DSRA fuel tech with an additive and when they used it with ODBA they got DQed
so maybe ODBA is on to something ?

I don't know what they added but I do know the results ...

I guess what is over IS over , but next year at Jasper maybe their should be a third person to help with fuel samples and get the results quick , hearing about the results on a forum ain't right.

Don't know else can be done at this point ?

ODBA is having the end of year meeting next month, so If someone has any Ideas pass it along to someone that attends .

**David - WI** · 10-23-2015, 08:33 AM

8. Moisture in the fuel will shift the meter in a positive direction. Rainy days, or even high humidity can cause fuel to come up illegal. Unfortunately, the rules do not allow for the tech man to vary the definition of legality just because it might have rained the night before! (Racers beware! I once saw a man lose a National event because he left his fuel in the kart tank overnight the fright before the race and it picked up enough moisture to fail fuel tech the next day!)

From: http://www.foxvalleykart.com/fuel7.html

First part of eight part series on fuel additives and testing: http://www.foxvalleykart.com/fuel1.html

Another approach is to actually provide legal fuel to the karters at the track; to contract a vendor for legal fuel to be at the track on race days and suggest that anyone not confident in their fuel's ability to pass tech purchase fuel from him. This puts the burden on finding a reliable vendor on the club or track management and also offers the opportunity for the embarrassing discovery in tech that the "track gas" isn't legal after all. I have seen this happen more than once, where competitors discovered in post-race tech that the fuel they had purchased at the track was contaminated. At one national event, the top six finishers in the first race of the day were disqualified and dismissed from the tech area before the problem was discovered. Once they had left the tech area, officials correctly ruled that, despite the error, they could not return and be reinstated. It was an awkward and extremely difficult situation that could have been avoided if only the officials had teched the "track gas" first.

http://www.foxvalleykart.com/fuel8.html

**Tango** · 10-23-2015, 10:17 AM

I have seen this happen before in spec class racing more than once and it truly falls back on the knowledge of the instrumentation, the systems the fuel is being used in and the applications. There are so many variables that I simply find the results of the fuel failures absurd.

For one... from reading the info shared by most everyone who failed the fuel test, I have a few questions which will lead to the obvious.

How many who failed had a higher capacity fuel tank or cell then the needed fuel to make the runs?
How many of those who failed are using a regulated return fuel system?
How many of those who failed have aluminum tanks vs plastic ones?
How many of those who failed have an open-to-air ventilation system?

When you begin to understand that pouring 2-4 gallons at a time in a larger fuel cell will create more aeration of the fuel, which if that tank is also ventilated to the open air... you will have specific gravity changes making the fuel heavier as time passes.

If you have a regulated return and that fuel is flowing at 40+ psi back to the tank... its going to aerate more than say a system that does NOT have a regulated return. This is why ALL auto manufacturers went to in-tank regulated systems years ago with a single line to the fuel rails, in an effort to reduce fuel vapor and loss of fuel quality.

If you have an aluminum tank vs the plastic, you will be more susceptible to the fuel having more hygroscopic tendencies than with a plastic tank... also an increase of venting to the open air which also changes the fuel properties.

The only true way to make these systems FUEL PROOF is to have as small of a tank as you need to make your runs, with a sealed expansion tank for ventilation that goes back to the intake manifold just like the cars do. Then storage in black fuel jugs with fresh O-ring sealing caps, stored in a dry trailer.

Failure to do this with your fuel, simply leaves you open to the interpretation of someone who is taking a sample from a HUGE stock such as a truck, mixing it with oils in ratios to gain a standard that is completely flawed. If you want to do it right... you'd have to mix your standards each day, letting them sit in a container that is open air vented and then circulate it for an hour to replicate the exact fuel system every competitor has. Once again... this is the exact reason that many racing sanctioning bodies have standard fuel systems diagramed for rules so this circus never happens.

Hope this sheds some light on your Fuel-Gate issue.