Hot Singles ! - Pictures

[Jeff_G]

OK so the cowl with the Super Six was the C-6.

The C-6 only used the oval carbs which do say MerCarb on them, I have to go look.

The C-6 although it was the same as the T-II block was advertised as the 1400 for marketing and the later 1973 T-II was marketed as the 1500 even though they shared almost nothing.

I do know the C-6 and T-II are the same blocks and are nothing like a production 1400/1500.

The C-6 and 1973 T-II used the BP type mid and the later 1973/74 on T-IIX used the Champ style.

And they all came standard with Mercury steering bars for cable pulley steering.

Correct?

[Bruce Washburn]

I could be wrong but I believe that there were some factory TII X motors that had both power ports and finger ports.and single or two 1mmring trw pistons.

[willabee]

As per my post quoting Mr. Lanphear ... pre T-2 C-6's were tested and probably raced in both configuations for a year or two ... unless Willabee is certain no Tillotson carbed C-6's were out for racing at the same time as the Morgan's. The impression I got from Lanphear was that they were.

The Morgan carbs were probably running for about a year before Lanpheer was ready for us to test the Tillotsons. I do remember the first powerhead he sent over for us to test. We had just returned from a race and the powerhead arrived. I asked the rigging guys to put it on one of the 17' Molinari's while the engine shop guys disassembled all of the stuff we had broken at the last race...... we always laid out the failed parts for the engineering guys to inspect and gave them as much info as possible about each broken piece. When the rig shop said the boat was ready for testing, I went down to check it out and really didn't like what I saw, so we didn't test right away.

Instead, I waited for the day that all engineers, which included Charles Alexander (either VP Engineering or Company Pres. at the time) were performing their inspection. When finished, Alexander asked me if there was any more to look at and I said yes, and opened the overhead door to the shop to show him the powerhead we were sent to test. I pointed out a number of things that were, in my opinion, not installed properly on that powerhead and said they would never make it through a race in that form. That really upset the boys from Plt.6, but I didn't think I should worry about that.....they had previously made it clear that I was not an engineer and I should leave the engineering up to them. Well, they were right about that, but my job was to make sure that we finished and hopefully won some races and I figured I would try to get some stuff fixed before it ever got the chance to break in a race. Anyway, I seem to recall some of the Tillotson powerheads being sent to non-factory races to see how they would perform before they were were allowed to run at a major event.....probably about a six month period.

[willabee]

The point I was trying to make was, I don't think Merc used any power ported block/piston combos in factory T2 or T2X's, and since I'm not aware of any difference between a '72 1400 block and the subsequent 1500 ones except for the hole in the cyl wall for the power port, I don't understand the distinction.

I don't know what to tell you...... I can say that from the 1250 on, the racing team always got the new block, assembled the powerhead and ran it in major races before it was turned over to production. I did find the articles below......they are both from Powerboat. The first is from October, 1972 and they are featuring all of the new outboards for 1973...read the 3rd paragraph. The second is from October, 1973 and they are talking about the new models for 74...read the 2nd paragraph.

When I post, I do so with the intent of accurate information and, on occasion, hopefully some entertainment. If I am not sure of something, I try to look it up.....If I can't find it, I give you what I recall to the best of my ability.

[T2x]

I could be wrong but I believe that there were some factory TII X motors that had both power ports and finger ports.and single or two 1mmring trw pistons.

That would be correct....... The final (factory racing) T2x's were potent mothers.

T2x

[willabee]

OK so the cowl with the Super Six was the C-6.

The C-6 only used the oval carbs which do say MerCarb on them, I have to go look.

The C-6 although it was the same as the T-II block was advertised as the 1400 for marketing and the later 1973 T-II was marketed as the 1500 even though they shared almost nothing.

I do know the C-6 and T-II are the same blocks and are nothing like a production 1400/1500.

The C-6 and 1973 T-II used the BP type mid and the later 1973/74 on T-IIX used the Champ style.

And they all came standard with Mercury steering bars for cable pulley steering.

Correct?

1. yes
2. yes - I don't recall what name is on them
3. - not sure what you said except 1400 on C6 & 1500 on TII &TIIX is correct
4. ok - I don't
5. yes
6. C6 used bars from Molinari - Starting with TII, came with alum.plates

[Mark75H]

The C-6 and 1973 T-II used the BP type mid and the later 1973/74 on T-IIX used the Champ style.

The BP and T-II mids are slightly different at the top. On the BP a steering bar would have to mount to the engine studs and the mid has the mounting bosses for the under cowl cover that covers the powerhead studs and nuts. The T-II mid is smoother up to the powerhead studs except for big bosses sticking out to mount a steering bar directly to the mid.

[Raceman]

The C-6 and 1973 T-II used the BP type mid and the later 1973/74 on T-IIX used the Champ style.

Seems like "BP type mid" in describing a T2 is a big stretch, since the bolt pattern at the top is different between the two, as well as the exhaust configuration.

One other comment......... I've been in a bunch of T2/T2X powerheads now with my bore scope and again, I've NEVER seen one with the powerport in the side like the 1500. I've only seen one that had the finger ports, and was told by the owner that it had single ring pistons, although we didn't pull a side cover to look, but even it didn't have the power port.

[Mark75H]

Dang! I forgot about the bolt pattern change .... I knew that, duh.

[Jeff_G]

Don't be so picky , when I said the BP TYPE I was referring to the BASIC shape as opposed to the Champ style. Not all the little differences!

[Raceman]

I can say that from the 1250 on, the racing team always got the new block, assembled the powerhead and ran it in major races before it was turned over to production. I did find the articles below......they are both from Powerboat. The first is from October, 1972 and they are featuring all of the new outboards for 1973...read the 3rd paragraph. The second is from October, 1973 and they are talking about the new models for 74...read the 2nd paragraph.

When I post, I do so with the intent of accurate information and, on occasion, hopefully some entertainment. If I am not sure of something, I try to look it up.....If I can't find it, I give you what I recall to the best of my ability.

Here's what I can't figure out about the comments earlier in this thread, and the two pictured magazine articles further confuse it. (For background, I have 2 Twisters (red striped), 2 Twister 1's, 1 Twister1 upgrade kit - new in box and never assembled, 3 complete Twister 2's and 1 complete and 1 partial T2X. I previously had 2 additional T2's) I have looked inside most of these powerheads with a bore scope, and there's not a power ported cylinder in the bunch. So if Merc put out a press release in '72 saying that powerporting was developed for the Twister racing engines, what Twister was it used in?

[mbd29]

The Marketing Group didn't know the difference between a power ported piston and a non, or the difference between a direct charged block and a cross flow. These were technical terms used in the literature, supplied by engineering. They also didn't know what kind of "parts" were used in race engines. So, when they refered to all of these developments coming from racing they used it in general terms.

[Jeff_G]

RM remember the discussion about a year or so ago about "forged" pistons? The marketing guys said forged when they were actually pressure cast pistons, never forged. I take what I see in ads and all with a grain of salt.
I'll have to look into my blocks to see what is in there, it has been so long.

[willabee]

Well here is my two cents. About the only things that were common between the TII,TIIX and 1400/1500 was the block foot print, rod and pin bearings. The production engines were referenced in context with the race engines because they were our flagship engines at the time so Marketing used it to their advantage.There was so much going on at that time I'm supprised that Bill can remember the details he does

So, the TII was the legal "U" class engine in 1973 and the 1500 "power-ported" engine is the big people engine for 1973. In addition, Merc was racing a "S" class version of the TII that same year. Maybe the TII was built with the 1400 block and the "S" version was that block with the power-ports, which would be called a 1500 because the 1400 was gone.

At some point, the race team would have run the power-ported block before it was approved for production. Sorry, I just can't put it in it's exact time frame right now.....maybe something else will come up that will turn on one of my old lightbulbs

Here is Billy Seebold and Bob Hering taking 1st and 2nd in "S" class in Memphis in May of 1973......note that Hering is in his new stars & stripes pickle fork Molinari and Seebold hadn't received his new one yet (he is driving Old Blue IV)......Billy Schumacher finished 3rd in his Johnson/Scotti.

[willabee]

Jerry Simison was new to the Merc Team, I think becoming a member in 1973 and this event may have been his first race. I do remember the black 17' Sprint Molinari was the first boat he was given and he did win the "U" class with it at this event running the TII. Doug Pearl drove one of those Scorpions we talked about earlier with a 1400 to victory in the "SJ" class.....you could always tell it was Pearl on the course because of that ponytail flying at the back of his helmet .

Mr. T, you should remember that black Molinari also. There was a race in Merrill, Wi. and you and I could not get your Molinari to run well back in Oshkosh. Everyone else had departed for the race except us and we were running out of time. We finally found a problem with hook in one of your sponsons and I decided that we would put your engine on the new black boat in the rig shop.....it was fully riggged but had never been in the water at that point. We made a quick run with it and agreed it was ready to go and we took off for Merrill.

Man, you would have thought we committed some kind of horrible crime the way we were treated when we arrived. All we did was park a boat that wouldn't run and put in a bunch of big time effort to replace it with one that would, and yet certain folks were pissed off. I still don't know what the big deal was about us using that boat, but they sure weren't happy about it..... even took away our truck keys so that we couldn't play that night (didn't matter, we didn't need em ). Anyway, I figured whatever the problem is, it goes away if you win and that was looking pretty good. It didn't help matters much when you ran out of fuel just before your one hour stop.....that was when I realized that in my haste to get everything else done, I had forgotten to check the size of that tank .....sorry bout' that.