F1 at indy

**hydroviking** · 06-19-2005, 07:26 PM

Holy **** ! I can't belive it. My wife was so close to buying me tickets for this race and i cant belive Im saying this but I'm glad she didnt. All Michelin teams refused to race ( because they felt there tires were unsafe, or they felt they had no chance of winning )which left 6 cars to run. What a kick in the nuts for the popularity of F1 in the US. Im a die hard fan of F1 and hate to see this happen. Cmon FIA get your **** together. Soory for all the fans who spent there hard earned cash to see the race, but I still hope it doesnt change your love of this amazing form of racing.

**heath brinkley** · 06-19-2005, 07:38 PM

what a joke.

**spn#43** · 06-19-2005, 07:47 PM

Shame on Michelin

**stokernick** · 06-19-2005, 07:50 PM

well,at least, Schumacher got his first win!!

**Fish** · 06-19-2005, 08:17 PM

Dude, that was total Bull S**t!!!!!! I am sure there is still more to the story that will play out but it appears it was a protest to F1. From what I heard, Michelin alerted everyone that they could not guarantee the tires would stay together if they did not put a chicane at the ends of one straight to slow the cars down. Track owners agreed to add it at their own expense. Ferrari (who was one of three teams on bridgestone) said BS, were leaving the race if they change the course, wea already set up our cars yada yada, and F1 backed them and refused to allow the course change.

Sucked to see the stands almost totally empty and see the few remaining fans throwing full beer bottles onto the course as the 6 cars went by. The whole thing, from the decisison by F1, to the failure of Michelin, to the fans throwing things at the drivers who could run was a disgrace IMHO.

**stevek** · 06-19-2005, 08:26 PM

It was the FIA that would not allow the chicane. I'm sure Ferrari agreed with the finding, but it was still a FIA ruling. Had they put the chicane in FIA was not going to sanction the race.

Bridgestone has been getting their ass kicked by Michelin this year. The Bridgestone tires have been blamed for Ferrari's poor performance this year (rightfully so). So I can’t blame Ferrari for wanting to stick with the FIA rules. Let Michelin run their tires. If they fail they fail. If they don’t want them to fail, setup the cars different, or have the drivers slow down through turn 13. Seem like a lot of sour grapes on the part of the Michelin clad cars.

The politics in F1 will end up being its undoing if they are not careful.<O

</O

**1BadAction** · 06-19-2005, 08:36 PM

michelin tires suck anyway. pilot sports, the only tire on earth you pay twice as much for and get less quality than a bridgestone that cost half as much.

**Instigator** · 06-19-2005, 08:43 PM

Just watched Dave Dispain on Wind Tunnel talking about it.
He had their (Speed Channels) F-1 commentator on and they both said BS!
There was 3 accidents in qualifying/practice all in the same corner (I think) that was Michielins reason for their boycott.
Tough call cause you sure as hell don't want to see a driver hurt or worse from a tire failure but does'nt make much since that they didn't know of this till yesterday though??
There clearly is more here than meets the eye but almost everyone (TV commentators) say it is a serious blow to F-1 and paticullarly in the US.
There is also behind the scenes rumbling of and off shoot of F-1 forming from within the F-1 teams ranks.
Dave Dispain and their F-1 guy both said that all of the Michielin teams are supporting this "rebellion" and Ferrari is not and that they also wondered if this may have played into their desicion
Speeds F-1 guy said he saw FIA boss Bernie Eckelstone in the faces of all the team owners yesterday "informing" them that they (all teams) would be racing today. Speeds guy said it was the first time he'd seen the team owners/managers "NOT" buckle to Bernies pressure/demands.
One of the callers to Wind Tunnel said they should go to a different track for the US F-1 anyhow.
I personally have never been a big fan of them going to Indy and supporting Tony George and crew after what they did to Cart.
I think Laguna Seca would be a better and "real" roda course for them.
The caller suggested Watkins Glen.
At the podium cerimony after the race there was no Indy staff there for the awards presentations in responce to todays events!
Anyhow, shockingly dissapointing turn of events!
Gary

**Raceman** · 06-19-2005, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by spn#43

Shame on Michelin

Let's at least tell the whole story, or at least the one reported: 3 crashes in the same spot, all because of Michelin tire failure. Michelin wants chicane.......... FIA says NO. Michelin says they don't know why the tire is failing, wants to ship a new load in from Europe for everybody to run.............. FIA says NO, must run what's here. If that's all true as printed, I don't blame em for failing to run em. I wouldn't risk my life over a bunch of horsh*t politics. Safety should be number one priority.

**spn#43** · 06-20-2005, 04:41 AM

From Formula 1 web site

“The Michelin teams deeply regret the position that they have been put in today and would like to apologise to all the spectators, TV viewers, Formula One fans and sponsors for not being able to take part in today’s USA Grand Prix.

“Following Ralf Schumacher’s accident on Friday morning, we were advised by Michelin that none of the tyres that were available to the teams could be used unless the vehicle speed in turn 13 was reduced. Without this Michelin did not consider the tyre to be safe to be used for the race.

“All the teams are confident in Michelin and trust their advice as we know they are competent and responsible and their written instruction to us not to race unless changes to the circuit were made was accepted.

“After final data from Michelin became available at 06.30 on Sunday morning it became clear that Michelin were not able to guarantee the safety of the drivers. Numerous discussions and meetings took place to find a safe solution to the problem. Every possibility for the race to go ahead in a safe manner was explored. The only practical solution was for a chicane to be installed prior to Turn 13 and nine of the teams were prepared to run under these conditions even forgoing championship points or by allowing non-Michelin teams to take top positions on the grid.

“Unfortunately all proposals were rejected by the FIA.

“Safety is always the first concern of any team and the FIA. Regrettably the teams were obliged to follow Michelin’s requirements not to race.

“We are totally aware that the USA is an important market for Formula One and there is an obligation for Formula One to promote itself in a positive and professional manner. It is sad that we couldn’t showcase Formula One in the manner we would have liked today.”

**Instigator** · 06-20-2005, 06:13 AM

They said on Wind Tunnel last night that the Michelin engineers could not replicate/duplicate the tire failures in their testing lab and that was what raised the red flag.
They did say the problem was from the vertical loading in turn 13 and that they have always been able to simulate the same issues in the past and that is what put the brakes on things.

**CDave** · 06-20-2005, 11:11 AM

They need to go to one tire manuf.

Sticking to the letter of the rules Mich. dropped the ball big time. Ferrari had to withdraw it's cars at, I believe, the 2nd race this year because they wore all the grooves off their tires half way through the race.

I heard one British news person ask the Mich. tire guy, why did you wait until Sat. evening to try and correct a problem you knew about since Fridays pratice?

**spn#43** · 06-20-2005, 02:25 PM

The FIA has ordered the seven Michelin teams to appear at a hearing of its World Motor Sport Council on Wednesday June 29 following their controversial withdrawal from the US Grand Prix.

The summons follows a statement issued by Formula One racing’s governing body earlier on Monday, in which it outlines its position on Michelin's decision to pull out of the race. The statement reads:

"Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.

"At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess. However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane.

"The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down. The Michelin teams’ lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One. It must also be remembered that the FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that "tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances".

"A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally – from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting. It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures.

"The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe.

"What about the American fans? What about Formula One fans world-wide? Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in turn 13. The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race. As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport.

"It should also be made clear that Formula One Management and Indianapolis Motor Speedway, as commercial entities, can have no role in the enforcement of the rules."

**Capt.Insane-o** · 06-25-2005, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by hydroviking

Holy **** ! I can't belive it. My wife was so close to buying me tickets for this race and i cant belive Im saying this but I'm glad she didnt. All Michelin teams refused to race ( because they felt there tires were unsafe, or they felt they had no chance of winning )which left 6 cars to run. What a kick in the nuts for the popularity of F1 in the US. Im a die hard fan of F1 and hate to see this happen. Cmon FIA get your **** together. Soory for all the fans who spent there hard earned cash to see the race, but I still hope it doesnt change your love of this amazing form of racing.

Michelin says there tires are'nt going to work in Spain either,due to the way the curbing is on the track or some B.S., some one has dropped the ball BIG time. I am glad to see the FIA stuck to their guns by not putting in a temporary chicane. What a friggin fiasco it was though.......for 6 years there has been a race there, you would think some one would have brough up the decision to make the proper tires for the track. Although they did overnight a whole different tire for the race but they got denied by the FIA. Rules are rules, though. kudos to Ferrari and the other 2 teams for at least attempting to put on a show. It was a ****ing disaster though. I believe we will see only one tire manufacturer next year after this in f1.

**LaserModVee** · 06-25-2005, 07:36 PM

My wife and I witnessed the FIAsco in person.

Michelin tested the overnighted tires on Sunday that the FIA would not allow in the morning practice only to find that they would not hold up either. Moot point.

I'm glad the FIA stuck to their guns as well. I came to see a points paying race for the world championship, not an exhibition run. Even though it was pretty much a Ferrari practice session.

Regardless, I left the track after four or five laps mad as hell. Tried to catch an earlier flight to FL, but had no luck. Ended up meeting Jarno Trulli in the airport and riding on the same plane as him. He was bummed.

Michelin dropped the ball, period. Even though the one tire rule stinks, they've had it since the start of the 2005 season. Michelin should have remedied this issue by now.

Link to thread on this subject in "Other Motorsports"- http://forums.screamandfly.com/forum...ad.php?t=85544