2 cylinder Merc racing motors Rockets, Hurricanes & "converted" 20H's

**champ20B** · 07-13-2013, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by Mark75H

That would be cool ... I probably would have run a 30MM Lectron on a Mk25 as a test rig for running 3 on a Mk75 if the Lectrons weren't so pricey ... decided to get Tillotson HR's instead.

Champion offered that A-600 open exhaust and the text is in the owner's manual, but it just wasn't competitive in alky ... Konigs and Anzanis blew them away ... not sure the Champion was even submitted for approval in APBA alky back then (motors had to be approved back then, it wasn't bore & stroke like modern times). There were lots of non-APBA races and if the Champion had a chance in alky, it would have been proven outside APBA and then they would have applied to run them in alky. I think the A-600 and the alky instructions were written just before the importation of Anzanis and Konigs when the Champions would have had a chance against the SR's and KG7's in alky. Its possible that the text was just never updated.

I agree. That makes sense to me. It was along this time, I think, that the idea of the alky engines based on factory stockers was phasing out all together. It was leading to engine concepts like the pro stockers today. Even Quincy drastically changed the design of what was a conventional merc alky. Alky hotrods would not have been seen in apba as you said. This was probably some other organization(s) racing in the southeast back then, maybe wildcat racing or something similar. I wish I was around back then to enjoy stuff like this when parts,engines and events were plentiful and motorsports was something an average guy could afford to do.

**Tom Foley** · 07-14-2013, 04:10 AM

Originally Posted by champ20B

I wish I was around back then to enjoy stuff like this when parts,engines and events were plentiful and motorsports was something an average guy could afford to do.

Yes things were very affordable even in the 80's . I bought John Stones national winning 55 - H in 1989 for $ 300.00 !!! Picked up a really nice Furnal Flyer DSH from Mark Johnson for $750.00 and John brought it down to FL for me for free ! Great people . In 1991 I picked up Marks cherry 44 XS for $2200.00 . Alot cheaper than 2.5 stuff LOL .

**John Schubert** · 07-14-2013, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by Mark75H

That would be cool ... I probably would have run a 30MM Lectron on a Mk25 as a test rig for running 3 on a Mk75 if the Lectrons weren't so pricey ... decided to get Tillotson HR's instead.

Champion offered that A-600 open exhaust and the text is in the owner's manual, but it just wasn't competitive in alky ... Konigs and Anzanis blew them away ... not sure the Champion was even submitted for approval in APBA alky back then (motors had to be approved back then, it wasn't bore & stroke like modern times). There were lots of non-APBA races and if the Champion had a chance in alky, it would have been proven outside APBA and then they would have applied to run them in alky. I think the A-600 and the alky instructions were written just before the importation of Anzanis and Konigs when the Champions would have had a chance against the SR's and KG7's in alky. Its possible that the text was just never updated.

Sam & other followers. Sometime between 1956-1958, I can't remember the year, John Alden from CA had an alky-Champion & won the "B" Outboard national Championship. Roger Dykehouse, a very well known racer & active AOMCI member, has an exact copy of Alden's motor in his collection. Roger doesn't visit here, but he would be willing to share the documents he has. He had the replica at the first Depue racers reunion in 2007.

**champ20B** · 07-14-2013, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by John Schubert

Sam & other followers. Sometime between 1956-1958, I can't remember the year, John Alden from CA had an alky-Champion & won the "B" Outboard national Championship. Roger Dykehouse, a very well known racer & active AOMCI member, has an exact copy of Alden's motor in his collection. Roger doesn't visit here, but he would be willing to share the documents he has. He had the replica at the first Depue racers reunion in 2007.

I would sure like to see that engine! I am learning all I can about the champion hotrods. So far, I have took note of many performance design principles that was put in to this engine from the one I have. There is one delimna I have though. I have been trying to figure out what motoplat ignition parts the guys running hotrods today are using. They look like side mounted coils with a round red colored coil block under a small aluminum rope-pulley flywheel, much like pro stockers use. Any body know about this set up? I have looked up motoplat and searched elswhere and found nothing anywhere about this.

**Mark75H** · 07-14-2013, 10:52 PM

That's a Cooper Jess question

**John Schubert** · 07-15-2013, 06:59 AM

Here is Roger Dykehouse's e-mail address. Do mention me as we are good friends & he'll respond quicker. Ton's of info & documents.
norm731@frontier.com

**53w** · 07-15-2013, 06:33 PM

Champion H-R was the engine to have in the B alky classes for a short time, there was a couple of years that you had to have one, or just out last one to win. John Alden engines where the best of the best B alky engines at the time. He took most of his H-R secrets with him to his grave. I have been trying to use some of his alky improvements on my current B-mod stuff. I never seen an 100% complete Alden engine just random block and heads and cases and cranks. It is all very good work and ahead of his time. Very impressive stuff. He must of been an very smart guys with 2storke design. Most of the things he did will never be known or figured out!. He was running in the 70mph+ around 9000 rpms with his H-R back in the late 50's early 60's. He would reheat treat the rods, alter rotary timing, custom pistons, weld and reinforce the heads up and regrind the combustion chambers, reroute the water thru block and head to keep internal temps where he wanted them and keep cylinders round. Roger Dykehouse is one of the last living real alky H-R guys left. I have called him to help understand what Alden was doing and get help on what to try next. He was a big help and very smart 2 stroke engine builder as well.

**53w** · 07-15-2013, 07:23 PM

At champion there was two H-R assemble lines. one for stock H-R, one for full alky H-R engines.
Carl Staron was able to visit champion and saw the two H-R assembly lines. I think he said it was
1956 or 1957. He also went to a boat show in late 1957 or early 1958 and saw the new H-R with
what we still currently race, the long transom hooks, heavy duty saddle, and thrust socket.
He thinks it was the same power head with no updates.
I also meet the son of one of engineers that helped desighn the H-R. The what would of been the new 1958 or 1959 H-R
power head had a new balanced crank with round rotary valve scoops that were plastic and
bolted on to the crank. These engines in stock for where running over 9000 rpm pulling over 30hp
on champions dyno.
If champion didn't go out. it would be interesting on what stock A and B classes would of developed
like?
what really killed champion was the 25hp mercury thunderbolt. Champion had been the worlds largest producer
of small outboards in the world. They had no tooling or machines to build larger then 15 and 16hp
fishing engines. The 15-16hp gearcase was designed for 7hp and was prone to failure on the 15 and 16hp
fishing engines.
They saw no future in the fishing market and it was going away quickly. OMC and mercury had reliable double hp
engines and they only had 16hp. The investment to completely retool and was too large and they just closed there doors.
Just for note they did have running 4 and 6 inline cylinder rotary valve 40 -75hp prototype engines but no way to build them in production.

**champ20B** · 07-28-2013, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by John Schubert

Here is Roger Dykehouse's e-mail address. Do mention me as we are good friends & he'll respond quicker. Ton's of info & documents.
norm731@frontier.com

Its been a while since I checked the forum. Thanks for this info though. I emailed Mr. Dykehouse and am waiting for a reply. To show thanks, I have some really interesting info for the merc 20 fishing motor peformance upgrade. Back in the day, We all know that mercury made the super 10 Wizards. The one with a shroud tank and full gearshift, was the (WH7) model. It had a small carburator and interestingly, a lesser diameter bore giving it an 18 cubic inch displacement. It had the same crank and rods as a mark20 fishing motor. Now here is the real blast....This engine used the flywheel and ignition that the 6NHR hotrod used. The flywheel has the same part number FR884 stamped under it as my hotrod motor flywheel. This wheel is identical to a 20H wheel except for having the smaller taper. I removed a bendix ignition from my mark 20 merc to replace it with the Phelon point type. The center magnet rotor was removed and replaced with a breaker-cam directly, no mods required. I then put on the (WH7 Wizard/ Champ Hotrod) forged flywheel, It went right on. My mark 20 merc revs quicker and seems to run harder on the fishing boat. It now has the 20H ignition on a small-taper crank. Just increase the carb opening to fit a KA7A carb and add a quickie tower/foot and the Mark 20 can be like a real 20H.

**Mark75H** · 07-28-2013, 09:16 PM

I suspected those parts interchanged and were made by the ignition supplier rather than in-house. Good research & testing!

**champ20B** · 07-28-2013, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Mark75H

I suspected those parts interchanged and were made by the ignition supplier rather than in-house. Good research & testing!

Thanks, I'm always glad to share great stuff with fellow enthusiasts. I notice the McCulloch symbol on your posting. I have something you may like to know on the 7.5hp low profile version of these great little McCulloch motors as well. As you likely know, ignition coils arent available for these anymore. I found a tried and tested fix for that! Simply take the old (oem) OMC breaker point type coils and remove them from the laminated coil heel they came on. These coils will press right on the McCulloch coil heels. Only a little bit of whittling is needed in the ignition plate to make clearance for plug wires, but do this, use the correct condensers, and you have a brand new ignition for the 7.5 to 9 HP low-profile McCullochs. These parts are often available at the evinrude/johnson parts dealer or can be ordered.Avoid the Sierra versions though, as they have a smaller square opening. Happy Motoring!

**rumleyfips** · 08-07-2013, 07:55 AM

Hot Rod A stocks were legal in Canada (CBF) in the mid 60's. Cal Merklinger tried to sell me one saying that they had a lot of advantages. Bigger carb, bigger ports, 16/21 and on and on. They did , however, carry 10 or 15 pounds more. I saw Gord McCready beat him with an A Merc and that was that. Who wanted an expensive motor, hard to start, crapped out a lot and wasn't any faster? Sorry I can't get a paragraph break. I wonder how much restriction there is from a 20H reedcage. Quincy got 60hp from a B looper with this design. Weren't 20H's 23-24hp? In the late 70's a lot of classes ran the same speed. ASH-63,25SSR-64, BSR/25SSH-65,BSH-66. I always wondered what an unconverted 20H powerhead would do on my ASH lower unit on the Bunky boat with an ASH wheel. The carb, ports, compression and displacement should have added a few mph. John McManus

**champ20B** · 08-07-2013, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by rumleyfips

Hot Rod A stocks were legal in Canada (CBF) in the mid 60's. Cal Merklinger tried to sell me one saying that they had a lot of advantages. Bigger carb, bigger ports, 16/21 and on and on. They did , however, carry 10 or 15 pounds more. I saw Gord McCready beat him with an A Merc and that was that. Who wanted an expensive motor, hard to start, crapped out a lot and wasn't any faster? Sorry I can't get a paragraph break. I wonder how much restriction there is from a 20H reedcage. Quincy got 60hp from a B looper with this design. Weren't 20H's 23-24hp? In the late 70's a lot of classes ran the same speed. ASH-63,25SSR-64, BSR/25SSH-65,BSH-66. I always wondered what an unconverted 20H powerhead would do on my ASH lower unit on the Bunky boat with an ASH wheel. The carb, ports, compression and displacement should have added a few mph. John McManus

Roger Dykhouse told me about the 15 HotRods. At first, They were'nt all so great. Later on though, they were perfected to become the main "B" stock engine. Now, the 15 HotRod can beat many of the old 20 CID "B" stockers. About the 20H powerhead with an "A" wheel, It might not necessarily go any faster as the 20H and 15 merc had the same crank-stroke. In fact, a 15 merc might be able to hold its respective power producing band at a equal or higher rpm. The 20H can however have better acceleration due to the increase in torque with the lesser pitch/and-or/diameter wheel. Depending on the gear ratio involved, it would probably be better to just stay with a "B" class prop.

**rumleyfips** · 08-08-2013, 07:36 AM

Champ20B: I still can't paragraph break to work. 16/21 gears and a big wheel helped acceleration . In June ,1980 I went to a race in Lambertville to pick up a new Broccoli ASR. They weren't running A's so they let me rum my ASH with the 15SSH's. I got to the first turn first on the inside and thought - this is pretty good. I had forgotten about the big prop. A 15 was right there with me and at the centre pin the acceleration came on, he cut me off, washed me out and I sat there not pleased. John

**champ20B** · 08-08-2013, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by rumleyfips

Champ20B: I still can't paragraph break to work. 16/21 gears and a big wheel helped acceleration . In June ,1980 I went to a race in Lambertville to pick up a new Broccoli ASR. They weren't running A's so they let me rum my ASH with the 15SSH's. I got to the first turn first on the inside and thought - this is pretty good. I had forgotten about the big prop. A 15 was right there with me and at the centre pin the acceleration came on, he cut me off, washed me out and I sat there not pleased. John

Yes, the set up of any kind of boat can be a real hit and miss at times. A larger wheel would make sense with a low 16:21 ratio, or at least a higher pitch at that. One thing about 15SSH is that many of those were the 15 HotRods if I'm correct, maybe there were other kinds then. HotRods had the 14:19 which was a close match in ratio to what you had which sounds like a mercury. Sometimes a larger wheel can do more harm to a potential chance at a win than a smaller though. If everybody has an equal size motor and similar gear-ratios, a bigger prop may have more bite at a lower speed out of the hole, but in the case of a hydro on the race course, one is always moving fast. That being said, the critical pressure on the blades will be enough that a small prop will have a good bite at speed regardless. Now a larger prop may take longer to spin up (like having a bigger flywheel). That can hurt coming out of the turn, where as a smaller prop can be revved up quicker. What type of engines were you up against then, and what type exactly did you race with?