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  1. #1
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    are black max engines worth playing with these days?

    they are all over the place and cheap. i don't have a boat or any engines yet. but i can pick up these old 175 and 200 motors for next to nothing. or is there a reason nobody is buying them? are they sleeved, or plated bores? and is the 30 years of ageing after being run in the gulf of mexico just too much time gone by on aluminum boat motors? i am looking at an old allison 18 that is seriously underpowered as-is. but 400 lbs of V6 may be a bit much weight for it anyway.

  2. #2
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    What do you consider next to nothing???

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    100 to 1000 bucks. most in the 250 to 500 range. and when did they stop using the black max name?

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    i have read all that stuff. didn't answer any questions. when did they stop using sleeves and start plating the bores? when did they stop putting the words "Black Max" on the cowls? and when did they go from carbs to efi? and how much interchanges with later stuff? are people still running these and if i drag a couple home am i gonna be able to make something workable and reasonably powerful? or am i gonna have a bunch of rusty stainless bolts broken off in aluminum holes and take it all to the dump and get 10 cents a pound and hear the wifey say "I told you so!"?
    Last edited by derekfl; 04-01-2023 at 07:06 AM.

  7. #6
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    The V6 merc known as black max debuted in the 70’S and is referred to as the most common used motor for high performance outboard applications. Almost all models can interchange parts and mods can be made to the most extreme levels. The 200 black max from the 70’s until the 90’s were chrome bore. Basically the 2.4L were chrome and when they switched to the 2.5L in the 90’s they are steel sleeve. The 2.5 is the most desirable for obvious reasons but the 2.4 can still run hard. The smaller 2.0L 135/150 and some 175 are known strong and run hard too, just not going to mod much past 200hp no matter what you do so if performance is your only goal aim for a 2.4 or better 2.5.

    far as im concerned any running black max at 250? Is a buy now item. If it still has the lower unit? 500 is a bargain. Hard to beat the fun you will have with one of these. The prop selection alone makes these motors incredible to use. In the end the prop and the set up is the secret sauce to peak performance.

    exceptions to the above are any of the factory hipo race motors they are more unique
    Hydrostream dreamin

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  9. #7
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    Be careful or your wife may be right. Lots of variables.

    Rock
    Team Junk

    No sparkling wiggles in here, only dump truck grinches.

    "Screamin Heathen"

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  11. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekfl View Post
    they are all over the place and cheap. i don't have a boat or any engines yet. but i can pick up these old 175 and 200 motors for next to nothing. or is there a reason nobody is buying them?
    You must be looking someplace other than craigslist or ebay. On Fort Myers craigslist, there are zero 150-200hp Merc V6's listed that are of the "black max" generation. And of ALL of ebay, there are zero 175-200 Merc V6's listed from the "black max" generation, and two 150 hp Merc V6's listed from the 'black max" generation.

    Out here in the west, the 150-200hp Merc V6's from the "black max" generation are rare and bought up quickly when they appear on craigslist. And for much more money than "next to nothing". Parts for these motors are common on ebay (thankfully) and are worth MUCH more than scrap. If you can really get these things for next to nothing, I'd say at the very least you are well set for an ebay business.

    ===

    The "Black Max" generation is: steel sleeved 2.0l for 150, and chrome bore 2.4l for 175-200. There were a few over-200hp black maxes in EFI, but not many. they are expensive and desirable but "racy" and maybe not as well suited to daily family recreational boating. the "2.5" family replaced the "Black Max" family in around 1991 or so. The EFI generation belongs to the "2.5" family, even though there were also some EFI 2.4's. But there are also carbureted 2.5/150 and 2.5/200 and they are very nice motors IMO. If my 150 and 200hp "black maxes" weren’t so good and reliable, I’d like to have a carbureted 2.5/150 and and an carbureted 2.5/200. But again with my "black maxes" being so good, I just don’t have the motivation to go looking for carbureted 2.5s and re rigging out of my existing 2.0/2.4.

    ===

    As to the "black max" usability and reliability in day-to-day use, they are fantastically simple and reliable, IME. Couldn't ask for more. As an extreme example, I've been running a used one I bought off ebay with low compression on the top two cylinders for the past seven years and even still, it runs like a top. Never failed me. But it still bugs me so...

    ...Last summer, I found a used, salt water 2.4/200 that runs pretty well. Paid $2000 for it. Putting some effort into "de-salting" it before putting it into service while I get the top two cylinders in my 2.0/150 bored, even though it still actually runs well.

    My opinion, the "black max" family: 2.0/150 (which are steel sleeved), and the 2.4/200 (which chrome bore) are fantastically reliable, great day-to-day use motors... IF you can actually find runners for cheap.

    Obviously, a 2.5/150 is going to be way torquier than a 2.0/150, and probably beat it all day long in a race on the same hull. And from what I read on here, the same goes in the 200hp category: the 2.5/200 generally beats the 2.4/200 in racing too. When you can find carbureted 2.5's either 150 or 200, they are generally way more expensive than the 2.0 and 2.4 black maxes. So unless you are needing to race, you might be able to get reliable day to day propulsion for cheaper with a 2.0/2.4 black max.

    -Peter
    Last edited by pcrussell50; 04-02-2023 at 10:32 AM.
    "padded wonder"
    __________
    the wet:
    Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
    16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
    17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
    13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha

    the dry:
    2003 bmw ///M5
    1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
    and a handful of clunkers

  12. #9
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    gonna grab a couple then. thank you all. and any more info will be appreciated.

  13. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekfl View Post
    gonna grab a couple then. thank you all. and any more info will be appreciated.
    Don’t be a stranger then. Tell us what you find, and how it goes with prepping them for service and how they run.

    -Peter
    "padded wonder"
    __________
    the wet:
    Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
    16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
    17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
    13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha

    the dry:
    2003 bmw ///M5
    1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
    and a handful of clunkers

  14. #11
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    of course. i am a very good wrench, but from offshoreonly and the corvette forum, i KNOW that the best and brightest outboard minds-other than the ones that wanna charge me 4k-are on forums like this. i just bought my first. 84 200 hp. still laying on it's side in the seller's yard. i assume 84 as that is the date on the starter. motor spins. steering seems siezed, but it may be the cut off cable that is rusted solid. i think it is a 25 inch. with that little allison i will need a 20 inch mid and lower. i will post the pics i took in a few. gotta log into the site from my phone.

  15. #12
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    Here are a couple. is this a 20 or 25 inch? and can somebody point me to a free download of the service manua;? thanks.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 834A22BC-0EA5-4E8B-9A62-03C84BD3D037.jpg   04402761-70C4-46B1-9CC9-2F2D30AD0EBC.jpg   F306E346-4BEE-4F08-8086-2ABA8C7E112F.jpg   allie.jpg  
    Last edited by derekfl; 04-01-2023 at 01:59 PM.

  16. #13
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    so, is 380 lbs too much on the back of a 675 lb 18 foot bass boat? cuz there are lots of 90 and 115 hp options out there too, but they aren't that much lighter. hell, the 50 merc big foot the boat comes with is 260lbs. not looking to race. too old for 70 mph on up. just wanna drive around and explore the water in this boater's paradise we moved to. and maybe pull up the occasional fish...
    Last edited by derekfl; 04-01-2023 at 01:05 PM.

  17. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekfl View Post
    so, is 380 lbs too much on the back of a 675 lb 18 foot bass boat? cuz there are lots of 90 and 115 hp options out there too, but they aren't that much lighter. hell, the 50 merc big foot the boat comes with is 260lbs. not looking to race. too old for 70 mph on up. just wanna drive around and explore the water in this boater's paradise we moved to. and maybe pull up the occasional fish...
    Our 18 footer came with a 385 lb 2.0/150 right from the factory (we are not the original owners):
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SGU 1.jpg 
Views:	6 
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ID:	517188

    Guessing you should be fine. You might be able to contact Allison themselves and ask them, and tell them which motor you intend to run. My guess is that your boat was built for that motor.

    -Peter
    "padded wonder"
    __________
    the wet:
    Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
    16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
    17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
    13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha

    the dry:
    2003 bmw ///M5
    1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
    and a handful of clunkers

  18. #15
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    Looks like 20” to me. Lower unit there should be ratchet type if original. 84 200 might be finger ported too iirc. If so thats a yee haw go fast
    Hydrostream dreamin

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