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  1. #61
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    1. EPA killed the 2.5
    2. The 3.0 was never the best replacement, the boats didn't like the extra weight (though by now many have found a way to get reasonable handling even on some of the smaller V's, but the 3.0's were happier on 'bigger' 21+ V's and tunnels/mod VP's
    3. Center Consoles, Wake Boats and other larger boats gained popularity. Remember, in the 70's/80's and early 90's you fished from a small aluminum boat or a bass boat and you water skied behind a boat that was designed to make a tiny wake. Now it is the opposite and you can't even use your hydrostream on saturday.
    4. Optimax' came around and while good motors, they began to get too complicated and expensive for the average shade tree mechanic. They also were a part of the too heavy for the smaller boats so time to move up a little bit problem.
    5. Bigger forces bigger. Everyone moving to those wake boats, CC's and pontoons forced anyone who wanted to go fast comfortably into a bigger boat. In 2005-2009 timeframe I could enjoy a saturday on Lake St. Clair in my 24' boat. Today, under 30 and you're getting your ass handed to you all day long.

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  3. #62
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    times have changed but at least we still have new motors coming off the line, just going to take some time for guys to figure out how to get 300hp out of a 150 4 stroke!

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  5. #63
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    Affordable, boating

    Quote Originally Posted by donmac View Post
    times have changed but at least we still have new motors coming off the line, just going to take some time for guys to figure out how to get 300hp out of a 150 4 stroke!
    Affordable boating is not necessarily a thing of the past it just depends on how much you can afford like some people earlier in this column said you used to go boating with an aluminum Jon boat and a 7 1/2 hp John rude boat cost $125. The engine probably cost I donít remember but it wasnít much. But then again, my dad was making $12,000 a year and feeding the family with $150 every two weeks. And I was delivering newspapers and making a penny a newspaper that was affordable voting in the 50s. Nowadays Bought, an old Action, 19 foot with a 200 vindicator on it. John Rude. Paid $6000 for the boat. A and motor itís not necessarily mint condition but it runs 70 mph and provides fun for a good time. My son bought a 19 79,25 foot Meiko with a 225 Johnrude looper for $8500. Good boat but not cheap to run. Manage to find a deal on a 300 Etech for $7000. What a combination boat runs 42 mph very fuel efficient probably better than the average four stroke and we didnít have to mortgage the kids to pay for it. You just have to be a shopper and a negotiator itís still out there they just got a find it, happy boating to everyone

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  7. #64
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    My 200XS ROS weighs 434 lb according to Merc and it would still meet emissions. Is it more complex then a new 200 4 stroke? If yes, then consider our 150HO Etec. It's a bit lighter then the Merc and simpler. Sadly Merc was the only game for performance for a long time. The HO is great on a light water ski boat, but lacks the gearcase for my SS2000.

    Merc still is the only choice in a stock engine to go fast, except that Merc has gone too big for me.

    One can't buy either a 200XS ROS or an Etec anymore, nor are the boats that they are mounted on available anymore either.

    It's been discussed a lot, but I thought the WavetoWave article was good.

  8. #65
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    What most of us got into this sport doing, is long gone.

    I was never in a place in my my life, this as a hobby, to buy a new STV W/a new 280 on it.

    In full disclosure, I was never that guy cuz I enjoy being different and doing it my self.

    My enjoyment/satisfaction in this is probably different than 99% of you.

    To those that invested and did well…, awesome stuff!
    Im happy for you all!

    Some of you appear to have titanium balls!
    Ever lost everything?
    I have.

    Go through that then tell us how it works.
    Ever lived in an unheated garage in winter, single didget temps so you could pay bills?
    I have.

    Not wanting to make this the haves Vs have not, but, I think this hobby is different for all of us.

    I have been lucky/gifted to have met many people in this hobby, way up the food chain from me.
    They can write that ck.
    And I love them all.

    Helps keep me aligned of with what is out there.

    I guess for me, at least half the drive is knowing I can scrape garbage out of a dumpster, build it myself, have it be fast, and still be geeked about it.
    And that we can still do.

    Again, nothing (AT ALLL!) wrong w/the guys buying the new motors.

    Ive posted before that, their prices just makes me like my old junk even more and should every body else too.

    It just made our stuff “collectible”.

    For that I say, thanks!
    Last edited by Instigator; 03-13-2023 at 07:47 PM.
    I'd rather be competitive w/junk I built in my garage than win w/stuff I bought.


    I refuse to allow common sense to interfere w/my boat buying decisions.


    Checkmate 16' 140 Johnson
    Hydrostream 17' Vector FrankenRude I
    Laser 480 (?) 21' w/GT 200
    Glastron Carlson Conquest w/XP 2.6
    Glastron Carlson CVX 20 w/XP 2.6
    24' Sonic w/twin 250 Johnsons
    24' Sonic w/twin 250 HO Johnsons
    19' STV River Rocket w/FrankenRude II
    Allison XR 2002 w/Frankenrude II
    Hydrostream 18' V-King w/Frankenrude II

  9. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1954bmw View Post
    I don't have any info on costs or availability, but cooperider on the Checkmate website (persuader boats) was able to save the 21 and 24 foot Pulsare Checkmate molds and has gotten hisself a building in Bucyrus, Ohio and intends to build new boats. He is on facebook making I believe 13 and 16 foot boats and now is aiming for the bigger boats. Something to think about.
    Wishing that guy all the success in the world.
    Last edited by Pulse186; 03-13-2023 at 08:24 PM.
    Current: 2023 Progression 22, 2015 Mercury 300XS. 2018 Kawasaki Ultra LX. 1969 Hustler Wildcat.Sold: 1991 POS GW Invader. 1976 Donzi Hornet II. 1994 Formula 232 LS. 2001 Regal 2660. 1990 Formula 206 LS. 1992 Checkmate Pulse 186, 2003 Mercury 200 EFI. Random assortment of jet skis.

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  11. #67
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    Guys, this is one of the many reasons I like this site.This thread reflects our passion for performance boating. We all come from diverse backgrounds and many have had their share of bumps in the road and various successes. We all have share the same adrenaline rush of our 18 Hydrostream or the big offshore cat.Im just glad to still be around to enjoy it. Not all my buds are that fortunate.

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  13. #68
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    The big question is have under 30' boats and engines only gone up in price with inflation or is it higher?
    Car price comparison is a good measure so is a jobs wage x weeks to own one.

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  15. #69
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    It was higher then inflation in the last 2 years because of the crazy supply demand ratio we hit. I believe it will flatten out this year and you will see it more in line with just the inflation though. Inventory is starting to increase at most marinas I dive by.
    TJ @ Baker Engineering
    Tuff 24 300xs
    Tuff 16 90 Yammie
    3.75@199mph with LSX power!!!

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  17. #70
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    Another thing that did not help was the demise of all of your outboard clubs as well as no more family and sport outboard boat classes. Remember back in the day going to a boat race and 80% of the boats were a one seat sport boat. That was incentive for a lot of builders to build a lot of small hi perf boats. The people building those boats were not all about $$$, they just wanted more of their boats out there. More working class folks could afford the equipment to race or just have a cool sport boat.
    1970 15' Allison/135 Chrysler stacker
    RC Mod-VP Boats

    IMPBA District 13
    NAMBA District 3

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  19. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Poole ModVP View Post
    Another thing that did not help was the demise of all of your outboard clubs as well as no more family and sport outboard boat classes. Remember back in the day going to a boat race and 80% of the boats were a one seat sport boat. That was incentive for a lot of builders to build a lot of small hi perf boats. The people building those boats were not all about $$$, they just wanted more of their boats out there. More working class folks could afford the equipment to race or just have a cool sport boat.
    win on sunday, sell on monday

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  21. #72
    Join Date
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    #2 iron from the Mayo clinic, Fla. / Blue Ridge, VA.
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    what , the boat before it breaks again
    most overnite successes usually take at least 10 years


    Certified turd polisher,

  22. #73
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    what were financing costs back in the day?

  23. #74
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    Thank you Joe P.

    Ordered it after your post about it, it arrived today.

    I have probably 20 books in line but this is now on the top tier.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 3B81C5C8-3BCB-4648-960B-05755E81DC55.jpg  
    Last edited by Instigator; 03-15-2023 at 06:20 PM.
    I'd rather be competitive w/junk I built in my garage than win w/stuff I bought.


    I refuse to allow common sense to interfere w/my boat buying decisions.


    Checkmate 16' 140 Johnson
    Hydrostream 17' Vector FrankenRude I
    Laser 480 (?) 21' w/GT 200
    Glastron Carlson Conquest w/XP 2.6
    Glastron Carlson CVX 20 w/XP 2.6
    24' Sonic w/twin 250 Johnsons
    24' Sonic w/twin 250 HO Johnsons
    19' STV River Rocket w/FrankenRude II
    Allison XR 2002 w/Frankenrude II
    Hydrostream 18' V-King w/Frankenrude II

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  25. #75
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    ...good book about the basics on how to think financially. read it about 15 years ago. with out a doubt, should be a required read for all teenagers. and then get into real estate, lol...
    Last edited by FUJIMO; 03-15-2023 at 06:06 PM.

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