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12-07-2022, 06:46 PM #16
Well for what it's worth... I had a Liberator 21 and it didn't seem to matter at all where my sweetie was, the cooler, etc. I had 2 batts, and a lot of family stuff. She'd scoot all around the boat taking pics at 85-95 mph.
On edit- Wildman could add a lot more re tunnels\\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\///
Checkmate Pulsare 2100 with a 2017 Merc 250 Pro XS
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12-07-2022, 07:07 PM #17
Balance issues are same in a tunnel hull. Only difference is that a tunnel hull is somewhat more inherently stable laterally, than is a vee-pad hull balanced on its pad, so imbalance issues can be more forgiving to any associated instability. STV has a centerpod, so should be somewhat less sensitive compared to vee pad.
Last edited by Jimboat; 12-17-2022 at 09:24 AM.
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12-07-2022, 07:11 PM #18
My rigging setup sounds to be similar to your. I ran with 25lbs in my GS and weighed around 180. However, a trick I did in mine, was take the seat slide and re-mounted it 90 degrees so it slid left to right instead of for/aft. The couple inches, plus 25 lbs worked great for me. Plus 25 lbs is fairly easy to move around for when you have passengers in the boat.
I also found a full cooler in the port side rear compartment worked well too. :P2006 Spectre 24' SCS
2020 Mercury 300 ProXS
2001 Allison XB2003
2006 Mercury 250XS
1988 22' Velocity (sold)
1995 Allison Grand Sport (sold)
1998 Mercury Stock 2.5-260 SS
1990 Velocity 30' - 502's (sold)
Go Daddy Go! Racing
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12-08-2022, 10:24 AM #19Scream And Fly VIP
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Good stuff here in this thread.
A well respected performance boater mentioned using a level. With boat sitting in the water not moving, driver in boat, position ballast to get the boat sitting level.
Great idea with the slider seat track mounted left to right.
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rjdubiel liked this post
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12-08-2022, 10:48 AM #20
The STV had a flat pad, from what I remember a little concave also, my boat with a 11.5 flat pad never really had any Issues anyone could drive either one
The Allison pad is narrower and not flat so It takes little input to stay straight.
Where the Allison has the rear lip, I incorporated that same lip Idea along the side of the flat pad not the rear, the first time I drove It with that little side lip the bow was being
pushed down at speed, so I remove the last 1.5 to 2 inches of that very small lip and It made a big difference.
At speed the 20 foot boat only has about 12 inches touching the water, but that is a very high presure area, where little changes make a big difference.
25 years ago when I had a MVP version of the STV, I was suprised to find the concave in the pad, It stopped before the end of the pad. Mine was the earlier big
inverted V in the front, not sure If the second generation was the same.
The above statment about using a level, I assume what your talking about is the side to side level, not front to rear.We have invented the world; WE see
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12-08-2022, 11:06 AM #21Scream And Fly VIP
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Yes, side to side
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12-08-2022, 05:22 PM #22
I'm going to try this. The four 45 pound bags I have can be opened to add or subtract the media. They have handles. I'm gonna cheat and use them all to try to learn the pad a little quicker.
I think I'll start with weight next to me in the port side gunnel. When the boat is level I'm going to use 2 more bags as far back and outside port and starboard as I can get them. Check the level again and GO
I've had 3 Checkmates, a HS Vegas with a 250 and a Lib 21. They were all easier to drive with more weight in the rear.\\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\///
Checkmate Pulsare 2100 with a 2017 Merc 250 Pro XS
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12-09-2022, 07:34 AM #235000 RPM
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That is pretty much for sure going to be too much ballast... But that's okay... At least you will know for sure which way you have to go, the boat should consistently try to fall off to the port as soon as it starts climbing on pad around 65-70mph and then start trying to chine walk. Then you can drag one of your bags to the middle rear of the passenger area and make another pass.
Where is your propshaft to pad measurement? Is the lip still stock or modified or gone? How much setback? What prop are you running? Are you at or very close to neutral trim when running?
As far as front to rear ballance... My Allison is pretty forgiving as far as that goes I can have my heavy trolling motor on or off, can have passengers in front or rear seat, can have cooler in passenger area or rear compartment... None of that makes it any easier or harder to drive. Just have to compensate with trim to get the boat carry the bow how I want it.
Side to side balance and engine height make all the difference in how easy the boat drives on pad.. That along with good tight steering.
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12-09-2022, 12:44 PM #24
It's easy to see where the first owner (21 years) ran the motor based on the wear markings on the jack plate. That's where I have been running it so far.
It is not easy to know exactly how high the motor is in regard to the plane of the pad because of the rear roller on the trailer but as close as I can figure, about 3/4" above the plane of the pad.
The lip has been reduced but not totally removed. There isn't much left though.
The steering is opposing cable and very tight. As speed increases the boat tries to turn right if you don't have a good grip on the wheel. I'm considering hydraulic steering but it looks like a lot of work undoing the cable system.
I'm currently running a Hydromotive T4X 28p. The boat had a Hoss HPD 30p on it when I got it and the owner said it was perfect for the 280 that was on it when I got it. Now I have a healthy 225X Dave Driefort built. He broke it in on his STV and installed it on my 280 mid. On the water test he ran it to 90 mph on the GPS but he was working the wheel and the boat wasn't what I'd call stable. I also have a new Drag 4 but I don't have enough seat time with the T4X to know how different the Drag 4 would be, I decided to get some hours with this prop before trying others.
I have 12" of set back with a PowerLift behind a static bracket.
The boat was originally set up by a shop in Michigan I think called "Scary Fast". The original owner told me they were good with Allisons in the day.
The boat starts to roll at around 55 mph and I have driven through it to 64 on the GPS. Haven't had any good water yet and it's a long way for me to go to get to open water without a speed limit of 30 or less. I'm still learning how much trim to use or not and I know this is key to getting on and staying on the pad.
I'll take any suggestions you have. Thanks!\\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\///
Checkmate Pulsare 2100 with a 2017 Merc 250 Pro XS
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12-09-2022, 01:17 PM #257000 RPM
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^^^
Sam Baker and his brother ( Jeff ) owned "Baker Marine" back in the day - it was in North Chicago ( Antioch, IL ). They knew what they were doing and that's where that boat came from.
I think the best thing for you to do is find someone who owns an Allison down there and have him give you driving lessons. Will be a very easy learning curve that way. Run that 4 blade prop first - will be easier to drive. Until you can drive, I wouldn't bother prop testing. Have fun - great boat
MDS
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12-09-2022, 01:22 PM #267000 RPM
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See if Ziemer will meet you - you guys aren't too far apart.
Ziemer - sorry to volunteer you - LOL
MDS
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12-09-2022, 02:13 PM #275000 RPM
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Starting to roll around 55 seems about right, that is where almost all of the boat's i've owned started to require some amount of driver input.
Re trim - if you have a trim indicator, I put a level on the bottom of the boat, and then the prop shaft, once they are both level, I took a mental note on my indicator, for my current boat (V-21) it really only asks for a couple clicks above nuetral trim. I assume an allison to be very similar, you will probably run very close to this spot, worth a few minutes in the driveway to find it.
Also, I agree with the above that you are using a lot more ballast than you need, but, with 4 people in my boat I barely have to drive it, alone with just a little ballast definitely requires more input, so I understand your strategy here.
Too low of an engine on my V21 makes it more difficult to drive in comparison to moving it up. If the guy before you was getting a good number and felt the boat was running well, keep it there for now, if he wasn't, it may be worth experimenting up or down a little to see how it reacts.
a perfect set up boat for me, may not be 100% perfect for you. Seems that the perfect set up has an element of personal preference in it. Also, his weight distribution may be different than yours and you may need a little tweaking on the set up to account for your fishing gear, ropes, anchors, troller, etc. being in a different spot than he put it.
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12-09-2022, 04:08 PM #285000 RPM
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It sounds like you are close on boat setup. That's good. The advice to find neutral trim and mark it on your gauge from motorboatin is a good idea... You should be able to run very close to neutral trim at any speed between 30 and 80 so get it very close to there and just worry about getting the boat balanced well and dialing in steering input until you can drive on pad...
Learning to drive my Allison is the most fun I ever had in a boat... It's so rewarding when you finally get it and can drive on bad without white knuckling the wheel and can actually look around at the scenery.
I've shared this a few times but here is a video of my first year with my Allison.. Shows me struggling and fighting with it at the beginning and driving comfortably by the end of the year... Good times.
https://youtu.be/rIox1DB2jVc
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12-09-2022, 04:08 PM #292006 Spectre 24' SCS
2020 Mercury 300 ProXS
2001 Allison XB2003
2006 Mercury 250XS
1988 22' Velocity (sold)
1995 Allison Grand Sport (sold)
1998 Mercury Stock 2.5-260 SS
1990 Velocity 30' - 502's (sold)
Go Daddy Go! Racing
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12-09-2022, 05:26 PM #30
Don't over think it, has to become reflex.
Go drive a 30 year old truck with wore out steering, about the same thingWe have invented the world; WE see
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