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Thread: Bluebird K7
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11-21-2022, 02:21 AM #16
Designs
The Bluebird was the earliest successful outrigger style hydroplane. He evidently understood that this design would be well suited to the huge power output of the jet engine. The biggest benefit of the outrigger hydro is that it does not trap air under the entire front of the hull like a conventional three point hydro. There have been attempts to use this design in unlimited hydro racing, but even with turbine engines, a prop driven U hydro does not have the power to weight ratio to make it work properly.
I have no doubt that Don Pinckert, the man who built the first RC outrigger hydroplane, was inspired by the Bluebird. The design is the ultimate RC speed boat because the power to weight (and size) ratio is off the chart.
But every design has a limit and Campbell pushed Bluebird past it on that day.
As for Lee Taylor, if you go to YouTube and watch the vids of Hal Needham's Budweiser rocket car driven by Stan Barrett, you see where Taylor got the idea to build his radical boat. His boat used a hydrogen peroxide rocket engine the same as the rocket car. His idea was to have a boat with the same 'footprint' of that tricycle rocket car. But the angle of all three ride surfaces had far too much AOA which was the main contributing factor of why the boat flipped over like it did. The water conditions on Tahoe that day did not help either.1970 15' Allison/135 Chrysler stacker
RC Mod-VP Boats
IMPBA District 13
NAMBA District 3
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11-21-2022, 08:01 AM #175000 RPM
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Thank you, I missed this part until i looked closer. Academic question; from what i gather the K7 did not have a propeller and is in essence a full in-ground effect design with six pressure ridges, three on each side? Thanks again
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5263550
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11-21-2022, 09:07 AM #18
None of the record attempt boats we are talking about are propeller driven. Thrust only.
'95 STV "The Blue Goose"
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Instigator liked this post
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11-21-2022, 08:43 PM #19
20 yrs ago I was in Ken Warbys basement/bar and among videos we watched was the one of of Arfons attempt.
Ken thought he ran out of fuel.
This got my attention.
He also thought there was possible, personal issues at play that he didn’t go into.
As stated though, these boats are propelled by thrust which I’ll be the first to admit I know nothing of.
Propeller driven, has effect on lift.
Thrust driven, once flying, they are 100% aerodynamic controlled/effected w/angle of thrust being the limiting/controlling factor.
On Arfons, I clearly remember his design.
It was a stretched out Top Fuel Hydro design. Like, 10’ longer.
I remember seeing Arfons pre-attempt press on it and saying TFH was already running 230.
And I was screaming at the TV screen saying, “yeah for the last 100’ of their pass and 3 drivers die every yr trying”, and your going to go 100 mph faster?
I gave him 0% chance of succeeding.
Kens take was, under power/thrust, that thrust angle keeps the bow down.
Run out of fuel/thrust, aerodynamic lift stays the same, mechanical thrust/angle goes to zero and…..
These guys are the men of men.
Like the first guys to challenge the world is flat.
OK, but how do we know?
I remember Warby bitching about the APBA trying to institute safety rules for their future record attempt and laughing at them.
No one, I mean no one, knows ANYTHING about going 300 mph in a boat!
Well, one guy does.
But the man tells him the rules they’re going to instate?I'd rather be competitive w/junk I built in my garage than win w/stuff I bought.
I refuse to allow common sense to interfere w/my boat buying decisions.
Checkmate 16' 140 Johnson
Hydrostream 17' Vector FrankenRude I
Laser 480 (?) 21' w/GT 200
Glastron Carlson Conquest w/XP 2.6
Glastron Carlson CVX 20 w/XP 2.6
24' Sonic w/twin 250 Johnsons
24' Sonic w/twin 250 HO Johnsons
19' STV River Rocket w/FrankenRude II
Allison XR 2002 w/Frankenrude II
Hydrostream 18' V-King w/Frankenrude II
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11-22-2022, 08:12 AM #20
The dynamic balance of these hulls is ever changing, with changes in aero lift/drag, thrust, hydrodynamic lift/drag, etc. The many force contributors to the dynamic balance all change quickly, particularly as velocity changes quickly too. Propulsion force from propeller vs jet engine is definitely quite different in the respective contribution to dynamic balance. it's difficult to maintain the changes needed to keep the boat in dynamic balance, and once it's just slightly off, the changes come increasingly faster. it's tough to stay on top of, with some designs.
Last edited by Jimboat; 11-22-2022 at 11:24 AM.
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11-22-2022, 09:44 AM #215000 RPM
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Real-time pressure differential telemetry is a fantastic opportunity; these are in ground effect craft imo\. The plywood, 60$ jet engine and > 300mph is nothing short of genius, passion and fortitude. I'm not sure I would have enough courage to even start it up; let alone push the throttle to the wall. What these folks accomplished is legendary.
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11-23-2022, 07:56 PM #228000 RPM
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11-23-2022, 08:01 PM #238000 RPM
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11-23-2022, 08:05 PM #248000 RPM
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Outriggers in the bow saved his bacon.
If the Outriggers were in the back, then surely his needle nose front would have dug into the water, and pitched the boat out of control.
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11-24-2022, 02:13 AM #255000 RPM
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11-24-2022, 07:03 AM #26
As a friend/fan of Warbys, he is a bad ass.
For proof, watch the documentary about his record attempt.
They were struggling to get through the 280/290’s and couldn’t figure out why.
They knew they had the hull and the power but couldn’t get there.
He had a professor (I think) on his crew who was running calculations on their set up.
He determined the rudder was too deep and causing to much drag.
Said if the removed 4” it equaled a reduction of x thousand lbs of drag.
Ken decided 6” would be better!
They had a cutting torch on site but no goggles.
Ken wouldn’t let his crew do it because of the risk to their vision so he did it.
While cutting the bottom of the rudder off, he kept one eye covered.
When asked why he covered one eye he said, in case it blinded him he would still have one good eye so he could still drive!
It worked and they went 317!
To remind myself of how important that record is, I am reminded that every attempt since then has ended up killing that person!
I'd rather be competitive w/junk I built in my garage than win w/stuff I bought.
I refuse to allow common sense to interfere w/my boat buying decisions.
Checkmate 16' 140 Johnson
Hydrostream 17' Vector FrankenRude I
Laser 480 (?) 21' w/GT 200
Glastron Carlson Conquest w/XP 2.6
Glastron Carlson CVX 20 w/XP 2.6
24' Sonic w/twin 250 Johnsons
24' Sonic w/twin 250 HO Johnsons
19' STV River Rocket w/FrankenRude II
Allison XR 2002 w/Frankenrude II
Hydrostream 18' V-King w/Frankenrude II
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mikesufka liked this post
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11-24-2022, 07:25 AM #27
Just found these on my phone, from 20 yrs ago!
I'd rather be competitive w/junk I built in my garage than win w/stuff I bought.
I refuse to allow common sense to interfere w/my boat buying decisions.
Checkmate 16' 140 Johnson
Hydrostream 17' Vector FrankenRude I
Laser 480 (?) 21' w/GT 200
Glastron Carlson Conquest w/XP 2.6
Glastron Carlson CVX 20 w/XP 2.6
24' Sonic w/twin 250 Johnsons
24' Sonic w/twin 250 HO Johnsons
19' STV River Rocket w/FrankenRude II
Allison XR 2002 w/Frankenrude II
Hydrostream 18' V-King w/Frankenrude II
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kelvin523 thanked for this postJimboat, Frank Molé liked this post
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11-24-2022, 07:36 AM #28
The water speed record is the most dangerous of all speed records. I read that since 1900, it has had an 85% mortality rate
'95 STV "The Blue Goose"
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Instigator liked this post
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11-24-2022, 09:18 PM #295000 RPM
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Really great thread; worthy of creating an "In-Effect" forum imo\
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RPdEiI_foI
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11-25-2022, 11:16 AM #30
85% chance of dying. Who on earth would even think about attempting a speed run with those odds?
Top fuel drag boat record is around 265 mph. But they get to that speed in a few seconds and shut it down. I think the long runs and the little higher speed is the line being crossed.Last edited by Brad Zastrow; 11-25-2022 at 11:20 AM.
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FUJIMO liked this post