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  1. #1
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    V6 Powerhead Studs Question

    Rebuilding another Merc V6 powerhead, this one being a Laser 220 EFI. This powerhead came with a couple broken/missing studs that go into the bottom, which goes through top of midsection to tighten down powerhead. Not a big deal, I got lots from donor motors, but I was wondering a few things about installation.

    I know of several ways to remove/install these, but was wondering which method some of you use? Also, I can't find any notation anywhere in my service manuals with regards to this procedure, could not find online. They are listed in the parts breakdown, but no number beside them in the torque field either.

    Most studs like these (threaded on both ends) usually are not meant to be torqued down very much or at all, so was wondering is that the case with these also, do you use threadlocker and/or torque them down to a certain value?

    Thanks ahead of time for any info

  2. #2
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    I use a stud installer/remover that goes on a 1/2" drive ratchet. This works most of the time unless the stud is really stuck; in that case I run two nuts against each other to make a jamb and then run the top nut outwards and it pulls the stud. I install ph studs with red loctite and the same stud tool. It puts them in plenty tight untill it starts slipping. Really you just need to send the stud in till its seated. If you tighten with any significant amount of torque it will bottom out the threads on the shoulder of the stud and start splitting the casting of the block. The threads in the block are deeper than the stud threads.

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  4. #3
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    Dittos on the double nut technique
    1990 Shadow bass boat w/ 2.4 200 Merc. Totally resto'd boat and love it!

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rgsauger View Post
    Dittos on the double nut technique
    I don’t have a stud extractor so that’s what I would have done anyway

    As for the red thread locker: correct me if I’m wrong here but if you tighten the nuts during install to the right torque won’t the pre-load effectively prevent the studs from unscrewing even without the thread locker?

    -Peter
    "padded wonder"
    __________
    the wet:
    Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
    16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
    17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
    13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha

    the dry:
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    1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
    and a handful of clunkers

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcrussell50 View Post
    I don’t have a stud extractor so that’s what I would have done anyway

    As for the red thread locker: correct me if I’m wrong here but if you tighten the nuts during install to the right torque won’t the pre-load effectively prevent the studs from unscrewing even without the thread locker?

    -Peter
    I think... you don't want the studs to back out when you try to remove the nuts later?

    Let's just go ahead and make America great again!

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  8. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by David - WI View Post
    I think... you don't want the studs to back out when you try to remove the nuts later?
    Sounds reasonable. Does the factory use thread locker on the studs?

    -Peter
    "padded wonder"
    __________
    the wet:
    Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
    16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
    17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
    13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha

    the dry:
    2003 bmw ///M5
    1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
    and a handful of clunkers

  9. #7
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    Thanks for the responses folks, I was also using the double nut method (on ph studs and also the lower unit studs) but just found the same extractor/installer that 25two.stroke mentioned for $20 (I believe -- knurl type) so I think I'll get one just for simplicity and prevent thread damage. Good to know I was doing it right in general (not torquing down, just snug), just didn't use threadlocker but I may start doing that as I have seen them come loose when removing the nuts before on other units (which ended up being a PITA to remove due to rust and couldn't get good grip on the bolt), but have never seen them get loose on their own.

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  11. #8
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    Finger tight .. with grease. Grease the length of the stud .. unless you enjoy using the "Alabama blue wrench" in future disassembly ...

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  13. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcrussell50 View Post
    Sounds reasonable. Does the factory use thread locker on the studs?

    -Peter
    The factory does use thread locker on the studs. Even through the optimax age they use loctite. Yeah the loctite isn't to prevent backing out while running, I have never seen that myself unless the midsection cracked. Its mostly there to keep the stud in the block when you back the nuts off later.

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  15. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Finger tight .. with grease. Grease the length of the stud .. unless you enjoy using the "Alabama blue wrench" in future disassembly ...
    ...what charles said...

  16. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Finger tight .. with grease. Grease the length of the stud .. unless you enjoy using the "Alabama blue wrench" in future disassembly ...
    Adding another. IIRC from Carroll Smith’s epic book on nuts bolts fasteners and (air/auto/marine) plumbing, it jives with what Chaz has told us.

    I guess if you didn’t use thread locker and the stud starts coming out with the nut, it would eventually bottom against the exhaust plate. Then you would have to hook up the hoist and pull up. Which is what I do anyway when I’m working on powerhead fasteners.

    -Peter
    "padded wonder"
    __________
    the wet:
    Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
    16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
    17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
    13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha

    the dry:
    2003 bmw ///M5
    1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
    and a handful of clunkers

  17. #12
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    Double Nut Torque

    Quote Originally Posted by rgsauger View Post
    Dittos on the double nut technique
    What would the torque value be for double nutting?

  18. #13
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    2 or 3 Ugga Dugga's by hand should do

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  20. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUJIMO View Post
    ...what charles said...
    Fugimoto, are ya mad at me brudda .. ??? Ohh, wait, I wuz havin a flashback ..

    My mom was the only one to call me Charles .. but only when she was pizzed at me .. which in my teenage years .. I gave her plenty reason to be .. I rekkon in today's language it would be written :... CHARLES

    Don't feel for her .. she would take my kid to toys-R-us .. buy him the loudest most obnoxious toys she could find. Buy him a large Mountain Dew and one of everything on the candy rack .. then drop him off , Son I'm going home to take a nap, Yea mom, I'd love to take a nap too .. but look at what ya did to your grandson. She said .. grand-ma's revenge .. And I waited a long time to get it ..
    Yes ma'am, love ya, drive safe .. Sure miss that ole gal ..

    OK , my eye's are dry now ..

    Powerhead studs :

    The factory could put em in with concrete .. whadda they care, they never have to take em out ever again.
    How easy was it to get the powerhead and adapter plate separated ..? Some salty dogs I've have to ruin the adapter to save the block. More times than not .. it takes a little heat to get them to move.
    Then them frog blocks .. 250xs, 300x, 300xs, sorry sir .. I gave your Alodine a different shade around the bottom ..
    &%$^*% factory put the studs in with concrete and an impact driver ..
    About 45 years ago, I bought a collet type stud extractor. I really need a new one, I've fixed the keyway ... too many times .. I have 7/16" + 1/2" collets for doin BB Chevys, and 8 and 10 mm for originally doing motorcycles, but now outboard stuff. Everything else is double nutted. I had one of those knurled eccentric things, but threw it in the garbage when it slipped and scarred a couple of studs. I won't deliver parts that look like that.

    Why did the O.P. or anyone else for that matter take the studs out of the block .. ??
    Fits in the wash tank, blast cabinet, weld bench, boring bar, oven, honing tank, and just easier to assemble without them in the way.
    When I do a block (all parts really) I do all gasket surfaces, chase every thread (or repair the hole) that concrete really leaves a mess behind ... barf.

    Why grease .. ? See part about concrete .. red lock-tite .. is for stuff you don't want to ever come out. And don't mind ruining the nut and bolt side of a fastener. Only thing worse is green.
    I use blue in a few situations .. but I always keep in mind that it has no lubrication properties. Every bolt mfg and every machinist handbook states in one form or another .. torque with light machine oil.
    So you lightly grease up aprox an inch of thread on a powerhead stud and run it in by hand.. maybe double nut if both the hole and stud haven't been prepped properly.
    So you have either seated the stud lightly on the shoulder , or are getting ready to.
    You hang the parts together .. everybody's seated evenly on the gasket and dowels.
    In the case of a 3.0L , you start your 10 mm nut which is 10 mm tall + the nylon. Is the stud going to stay put .. or seat the shoulder under the resistance of the nylock and then bedded in from the same torque of the nut ??
    Three years later when the guy comes back for another freshen up, the nylon will have gone thru a million heat cycles .. and like myself, will nowhere near as strong as I / it use to be.
    So you start taking the nuts off .. who's gonna win ???
    An old nylock with 10 mm's of threads ..
    Or .. a stud with an inch+ worth of threads that is "high centered" on the shoulder @ 45 ft/lbs then ran thru 3 1/2" of water logged grease and then another inch of aluminum (top ring of the can)
    In the strange event that (guys that can break an anvil with a rubber mallet) you loosen the stud instead of the nut ... seems to me you were taking the nuts off to remove the powerhead ..
    Then just keep on removing nut, turning studs out of the powerhead, until all ten of them are loose / off .. lift powerhead out of the way. Push the stud/nut up, double nut the stud above the adapter plate. Remove the nut from the bottom.
    As your disassembling the powerhead, it might even dawn on you that you are ahead of the game .. when it comes time to take the studs out of the block .. and you won't need the Alabama blue wrench to remove the remaining studs ...

    Chaz = wunderin, why is common sense, so uncommon these days ...

  21. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Powerhead studs :

    The factory could put em in with concrete .. whadda they care, they never have to take em out ever again.
    How easy was it to get the powerhead and adapter plate separated ..? Some salty dogs I've have to ruin the adapter to save the block. More times than not .. it takes a little heat to get them to move.
    I'm de-salting a salty old dog, to live out it's sunset years in fresh water. I managed to save the adapter and not even use heat... but it was a fight. The previous wrench had greased the studs, thank goodness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    In the strange event that (guys that can break an anvil with a rubber mallet) you loosen the stud instead of the nut ... seems to me you were taking the nuts off to remove the powerhead ..
    Then just keep on removing nut, turning studs out of the powerhead, until all ten of them are loose / off .. lift powerhead out of the way. Push the stud/nut up, double nut the stud above the adapter plate. Remove the nut from the bottom.
    As your disassembling the powerhead, it might even dawn on you that you are ahead of the game .. when it comes time to take the studs out of the block .. and you won't need the Alabama blue wrench to remove the remaining studs ...

    Chaz = wunderin, why is common sense, so uncommon these days ...
    If I decide to pull the studs, I'll chase the holes and put them back finger tight with some light grease. This is what I did with head and main studs on my SBF road race engines. But the engine itself is healthy, with 120/6 and 2-4% leak so I don't plan on pulling it apart except for CCMS reeds.

    -Peter
    "padded wonder"
    __________
    the wet:
    Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
    16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
    17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
    13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha

    the dry:
    2003 bmw ///M5
    1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
    and a handful of clunkers

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