electric catamaran boat to set world record

[PanRonnie]

Btw it is minus 9 here
Celsius that is

[noli]

.

Mr Fun ,

This thread isn't meant to be read

if there's something bothering you and you want to get even with the world, this is where you put your complaints

The more politics the better !
.

mr noli , not sure where that comment is coming from

sorry just me venting ... carry on ..






.

[XstreamVking]

Nicola Tesla said that point of use power was the ONLY viable power solution. Batteries are not gonna do it. Sorry just my 2 cts and the opinion of the father of elec. and the man the biggest selling ev is named after. So probably just the political and short sighted mumbling of a fool.

[PanRonnie]

There are still other options than just battery's!
This would not require putting your expensively made vehicle in the scrap yard

[PanRonnie]

In the interest of clickbait

[Chaz]

Btw it is minus 9 here
Celsius that is

So Ronnie, what you're saying is that it's 15.8* outside ...

I rekkon you could always use your battery powered heater to stay warm ...

I liked how none of the "greenies" had a comment on the ratio of money General Motors is willing to spend on the next revolution of the small block Chevrolet vs golf carts ...
And part of the golf cart money ... is going towards gasoline vehicle production ..

Chaz = thinking, the General ain't really buyin into the left-wing dream ...

[PanRonnie]

No battery's here! france is the country almost completly nuclear powered
Which they use to heat the wine
So staying warm with nuclear wine here

[Brad Zastrow]

So Ronnie, what you're saying is that it's 15.8* outside ...

I rekkon you could always use your battery powered heater to stay warm ...

I liked how none of the "greenies" had a comment on the ratio of money General Motors is willing to spend on the next revolution of the small block Chevrolet vs golf carts ...
And part of the golf cart money ... is going towards gasoline vehicle production ..

Chaz = thinking, the General ain't really buyin into the left-wing dream ...

Now for the rest of the story: Yes, General Motors is one of the few automakers spending money on new gasoline engines with a budget of $854 million. They are also budgeting $35 Billion by 2025 on EV technology. Just a small difference of about 35 times more.

[pcrussell50]

[QUOTE=CUDA;[URL="tel:3375821"]3375821[/URL]]

32 years and the best battery technology we have, has hardly moved an inch. The only thing lithium ion has done has been to become in more common use. And the only thing you can do to increase range is build heavier battery packs. That does not solve it’s problems.

Your wrong on no improvements in 32 years, I see a increase of eight times between 2008 and 2020 ? please explain where you get your facts, these are real facts.


But you talk convincingly, quite the knowitALL.

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FOTW #1234, April 18, 2022: Volumetric Energy Density of Lithium-ion Batteries Increased by More than Eight Times Between 2008 and 2020

APRIL 18, 2022

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• FOTW #1234, April 18, 2022: Volumetric Energy Density of Lithium-ion Batteries Increased by More than Eight Times Between 2008 and 2020

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<article role="article" about="/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1234-april-18-2022-volumetric-energy-density-lithium-ion-batteries" typeof="schema:Article" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><section class="layout" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-image: url(&quot;&quot;">Subscribe to Fact of the Week
Volumetric energy density refers to the amount of energy that can be contained within a given volume. Increasing the volumetric energy density of batteries allows electric vehicles (EVs) to travel further without increasing the size of the battery pack. Conversely, it can allow an EV to travel the same distance with a smaller battery pack, thus saving space, weight, and manufacturing costs. Given the enormous benefit of increasing the energy density of batteries for EVs, there has been heavy investment in battery development by the Department of Energy and private industry that has yielded impressive gains. In 2008, lithium-ion batteries had a volumetric energy density of 55 watt-hours per liter; by 2020, that had increased to 450 watt-hours per liter.

Source: Nitin Muralidharan, Ethan C. Self, Marm Dixit, Zhijia Du, Rachid Essehli, Ruhul Amin, Jagjit Nanda, Ilias Belharouak, Advanced Energy Materials, January 2022.


<article style="box-sizing: border-box;">Fact #1234 Dataset

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Ah, Ok Cudes... Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. "The man" was running me hard this weekend, (emitting great clouds of CO2 ;-) ), AND my wife and little girls came out as well. Don't know how I pulled it off.

Anyway, your chart... some issues... Including wrongly throwing your lithium ion batteries under the bus by giving artificially low energy density figures for it in the early years. Did I just come out and defend lithium ion? You bet I did, when appropriate. Sit tight for bit though this isn't a beat-up session on you, I'll throw you a bone...

-First look at 2008... It says 55Wh/liter. That is only 2/3 of the energy density of lead acid. By 2008, lithium ion was 17 years old. There is pretty much no way that as recently as 2008, 17 years into the history of lithium ion, that lithium ion was still under performing lead acid. It's just too far fetched to believe. Lithium ion is better than that. (There, I said it ;-) )

-Also, why does the graph begin more than halfway through the history of lithium ion? Why cut off more than half of the history of lithium ion? Unless you are trying to shape a message.

-Also, the fact that they are using Wh/liter instead of using Wh/kilogram is a little fishy in and of itself. The BIG issue with lithium ion is weight, not volume. Although volume is an issue too, just not as big of one as weight.

Throwing you the first bone... You probably googled "energy density" and true enough in science and engineering, energy/volume is energy density. But since weight is our issue here, we want energy/mass, which in science and engineering, we call specific energy.

===

Now the buildup to the second bone I'm going to throw you, or a tip of my hat to you, for calling me out...

So... the latest lithium ion specific energy is 270-290 Wh/kilogram. And here is where you are technically correct to call me out for saying there has been almost no improvement. Because there has been improvement, over 32 years. More than double. Almost triple, from somewhere around 100 Wh/kilogram. So why did I say there has hardly been any improvement at all? Well, because of both the timeline and the scale what we are trying to replace with batteries.

-Timeline: A 3x improvement (not even that, but close), over 32 years is horrifyingly little for a high tech endeavor. It's unbelievably painfully little considering the finest minds in science and industry have been working as hard as they can to improve it in laptops, tablets, cell phones, watches, and other consumer electronics.

-Scale against petro fuels: The latest lithium ion batteries are 270-290 Wh/kilogram. But gasoline is over 16,550 Wh/kg. More than 57 times greater. So an improvement in lithium ion of triple, from 100-300 (being generous), is miniscule. Hardly anything at all, if you are comparing to it's competition. We are zero percent closer to having lithium ion powered recreational boats that can Scream and Fly for more than a few minutes at a time.

Still anyway Cudes, I'll give you that over 32 years, lithium ion has improved.

It's just that for a tech industry, it's pitifully little. And it's improvement is almost invisible in comparison what you are trying to replace with it.

(BTW, almost all of the big improvements have come from improvements in the ancillary systems like charging, cell monitoring, heating and cooling of battery packs, etc... To hopefully keep the batteries from turning into a fire bomb. But even still, they are cutting it thin, as we see all over the place).

===

Meant to say a thing about your cancer. Prayers from my family to yours. 68 is way too young. I lost my dad to cancer at 72, way before we were ready.

-Peter

[wettek]

In the interest of clickbait

Port engine is using a hydrogen fuel cell, starboard is a standard turboprop. So not full electric.

[pcrussell50]

3376004[/URL]]Port engine is using a hydrogen fuel cell, starboard is a standard turboprop. So not full electric.

Also, the Do228, which has been in service since the early 1980's has a non-pressurized, box section fuselage. You can put seats in it, but even though it has proper gas turbines, capable of high altitude, you can't fly it very high because you'd suffocate your passengers in the thin air.

BUT it's boxy fuselage shape, and large, heavy lifting wing make it good for lifting large loads off of short runways (at least with the power available from the proper gas turbines). The tradeoff is that the big, high lift wing means that it's slow.

BUT, if you are going to play around with heavy electric propulsion experiments, you can fill the boxy space up with big heavy stuff, and the high lift wing can get you off the ground easier than a wing designed to go fast and high. It's probably an ideal testbed for testing EV power that will never be able to carry freight or passengers.

===

Also, the Dornier 228 uses 776hp engines, or about 575KW. When I Google pictures of A 575KW-capable hydrogen fuel cell, they are HUGE. They might have stuffed one in there… one. Or else tbey are running a small one over clocked that can’t sustain it for long (like the Hellkat Catamaran), or they are running it at a lower power and using either asymmetric thrust or reduced thrust in the good side.

-Peter

[Chaz]

Now for the rest of the story: Yes, General Motors is one of the few automakers spending money on new gasoline engines with a budget of $854 million. They are also budgeting $35 Billion by 2025 on EV technology. Just a small difference of about 35 times more.

Bradley, ifin you had read the story in the link, you would have seen the EV money mentioned was for a plant where they built battery cooling lines. Not their complete golf cart budget.
The General building the sixth gen small block only guarantees that gas engines will be around a lot longer than FJB will be in office.
I can only hope they used part of the government hand out, to develop the new pee-wee.

it's funny you can spit out a zesty response in what you perceive as a gotcha moment. But turn into a cricket in the dozen or so direct questions i have asked to you in the past ...

It's a balmy 78* and mostly cloudy here today. Where you're at, I'm sure you have had to run the electric heater in you 60 mile a day trip. Just how much battery life do you lose by running the heater ???
My guess your answer will be ..................


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I needed some JP2 for my honing tank. I went to our local airport and when the man got finished filling up a jet, he drove the truck over to where I was at ... and filled up both my five gallon cans. I paid him and was on my way.
Sure seems easier to just fill up the tank with gas, diesel, or jet fuel than waiting on a 30 billion dollar accident to happen, in order to run a heavy, overpriced, battery or a multi-plex hydrogen demodulator. Great Scott ...

This looks too good to be true .. All you green-heads need to buy up as much stock as you can !

https://nikolamotor.com/

But then, maybe it's just a left wing dream ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Milton

I love the down hill .. no motor .. $34,000,000,000.00 .. run ... LMAO



How bout them ZAPGO batterys ...

I'll say it again ... PT Barnum was right ...

[pcrussell50]

That was a sad shame. A lot of people lost a lot of money being taken by him.

Unfortunately it’s a story as old as time… People who want for something to be so, badly enough, are susceptible to believing things they are told, when the teller sounds convincing. A shame, because a few well known facts, and some grade school math, is usually enough to tell you enough to clutch your wallet and your hopes, a little tighter.

-Peter

[Brad Zastrow]

It is too easy to fact check you. You pick and choose your information to suit whatever conspiracy theory you are interested in. The automakers are going EV on many cars as the public is tired of gas prices. The Tesla uses a heat A/C pump. So, the cold weather is not really an issue on battery life. Extreme cold can affect the battery range a small amount. But I do not live in the Antarctic. There is always someone who talks about things they know nothing about and reports it as fact. I own a Tesla and it is not an issue. It could be long time before EV's replace trucks that tow or boats that need a lot of power but for a daily driver car or truck they are going to be major part of the market in the next few years. Now to address your worry of why consumers are buying 4 stroke OB's it's because they want them, including me. It is not a government play to force 4 strokes down our throat. More power, better fuel economy and better reliability. No smelly smoke to deal with on the older two strokes. The O/B market has exploded because of the new engines.

[PanRonnie]

Lichtyear one a dutch startup from the guys who won the solar challenge is in chapter 7
Sono motors is basicly bankrupt
I would ha love for these compagny's to make it
But the sad fact is the electric model T ford still has to be invented
Like a skater with brandnew mercury 450R's there will always be people able to afford that just not in high enough numbers to make difference