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  1. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow View Post
    To help climate change we need to get to much lower emissions. The government is smart and pushing that along. A category 4 is bearing on Florida right now. .
    Florida never had a hurricane before "climate change" though, right? This is the 1st and probably last of season btw. Sorry I don't believe in the carbon thing either or your "smart" government. Especially your state Brad. This place is full of scientist . Regards

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  3. #407
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    If anyone thinks the weather will be less severe if we get more EV's on the road give me a shout, I've got a bridge for sale.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow View Post
    First of all, premium gas is about $5 gal in Illinois. Second, our electric rates are much less than Hawaii. We have these really cool nuclear plants here. I would assume Hawaii is much higher than any other state.
    Oh, man. I was hoping you would get it. Let me help. It's not what it costs, it's the ratio of the cost of BEV to "other larger car". Both costs will be higher in places where gas and electricity are high, and lower in places where gas and electricity are lower. But the ratio will remain about the same. Based on Edmunds, the cost of driving a Model S is about 2/3 the cost of driving "other large car".

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow View Post
    Why have a nice car you do not drive for fear of putting miles on it?
    Nothing wrong with having a rich man's toy. Nothing at all. And putting a lot of miles on it just makes it even more of a rich man's toy by way of reducing it's residual value faster. Still nothing at all wrong with that... Unless you start trying to convince yourself that it's not a rich man's toy. Or worse, try to tell others that it's not. I 100% support rich men buying their toys and enjoying them as they wish. I would even go to war to protect that right, I support it so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow View Post
    As for putting taxpayers on the hook for infrastructure how about roads and bridges? How about the taxpayer that does not have a car?
    There are already more cars registered and on the road in the USA than there are people old enough to drive them. And that's not even including people who are too old and don't drive any more. The problem is BEVs. There are hardly any of them, and the ones there are, by a very very very large margin, are rich man's toys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow View Post
    Look the future is in electric cars for most people.
    "Most people" aren't buying them despite the fact they've been around for a long time. Tesla sells TWICE as many battery cars in a SINGLE YEAR as Nissan has in 12 years. The ordinary bloke who wants a Tesla but can't afford it, clearly isn't buying a Leaf or a Bolt. If he can't afford his rich man's toy Tesla, he is buying a gas car, as shown very clearly in the numbers. At this point, since more affordable BEVs have been around a while and nobody is taking, it's probably going to take some more government force to get ordinary people into ordinary (non-Tesla, non-Porsche/Audi/Jag) BEV's. CA is doing it by force. The eight other states that use CA's CARB rules probably will too. Continued punitive regulatory policies against fuels will help, too. With enough government force, people will eventually comply, and you will have your future where electric cars are for most people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow View Post
    To help climate change we need to get to much lower emissions. The government is smart and pushing that along. The fires out west, the high heat and the insane hurricanes are proof. A category 4 is bearing on Florida right now.
    LOL. Are you someone who blindly believes what you read? Or do you apply BS tests to what you read? For example, when you made your claims about how much cheaper you Model S was to operate than "other large luxury sedan", I immediately began running numbers (BS testing), matching your claimed costs to known metrics, because that's what I do. (They were a pretty good match too, so I believe you). There is a lot of BS testing that the ordinary person can do over global warming claims. Sadly, most people don't. And that goes for both believers and doubters. I have found most ordinary people on both sides to be astonishingly ignorant on the subject. Each side believing the shamans professing what he wants to believe. BUT... it doesn't have to be that way. There is much the ordinary person can do so as not to rely on faith. Be honest now, without googling, can you describe the greenhouse effect? Without googling, do you know how much of the atmosphere is CO2? You don't have to answer here. Just ask yourself quietly. Then (if you don't already know), google the answers for yourself. And then think about it. You can also BS test fire frequency and acreage burned, and frequency of named storms. You don't have to rely on what you are told. Especially named storms. They are right there on wikipedia among other sources. Then make your own conclusions. The most severe Atlantic hurricane (both size and intensity) to make landfall was Carla, 61 years ago. There are only three of the top ten most severe hurricanes that were even in the 2000's and the latest is 2008. The top three most severe were in the 1960's. The top four most intense (intense can be small, but with strong winds) were: in 1980, 1988, 2005, and 1932. There is simply nothing in the data that links storm severity or intensity (there is a difference), to CO2 concentration in the atmosphere, which has been going up steadily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow View Post
    I agree towing with an EV truck is not in the cards yet. Not yet but, technology will fix that.
    This segues into what I was saying about BS testing... Do you just believe this in your heart of hearts? Or do you actually know what technology might come along to "fix" it? Hint, it's not motor technology. It's battery technology. But Lithium ion has been the top dog for thirty years. Any further gains will be small and come at increased fire risk. The towing problem won't be solved without something new. But what will it's replacement be, and when will we see it? And why have we seen nothing better in 30 years despite the finest minds in tech working full time on it? Thirty years is an eternity in tech, and yet... nothing. This is a problem that has proven to be far too big to be just waived off.

    -Peter
    Last edited by pcrussell50; 09-28-2022 at 03:32 PM.
    "padded wonder"
    __________
    the wet:
    Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
    16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
    17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
    13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha

    the dry:
    2003 bmw ///M5
    1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
    and a handful of clunkers

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  7. #409
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    You clearly hate change and EV's. OK
    The best selling Tesla is a Model 3 starting at $46,990. Another interesting fact. The average price of a new car today is $47,000. It goes to say the Tesla Model 3 is average priced. Hardly a toy or a rich man's car. I am done with this tired conversation.
    Last edited by Brad Zastrow; 09-28-2022 at 04:34 PM.

  8. #410
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    Bottom line is that we should be concentrating on Electric assist. The performance is incredible the fuel consumption is much less and they don't kill the current grid. Emissions needs to begin with the largest violators and the U.S. is no where near the top of that list. If the rest of the world had emission outputs close to ours it would be a giant step forward. I sincerely hope that we don't see the day where we are like Europe and start killing the value of classic cars and other vintage motorsports but its a "monkey see monkey do" world of bureaucrats that control our path. All I can say is vote accordingly....

    FJB

    Joe

  9. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow View Post
    You clearly hate change and EV's. OK
    The best selling Tesla is a Model 3 starting at $46,990. Another interesting fact. The average price of a new car today is $47,000. It goes to say the Tesla Model 3 is average priced. Hardly a toy or a rich man's car. I am done with this tired conversation.
    Oh Brad mate, I never said any such thing about disliking BEVs. Nowhere. I’m just a simple numbers guy. And I love change. Having grown up in the fuel injection era, I’ve had an utter hoot of a good time learning about carburetors and carbureted outboards (thanks to S&F). And now I love them.

    Getting back to some numbers… What can we learn from the numbers you posted? A lot and a little. The average price of a new car doesn’t tell us much about what the average person spending on a new car. If one bloke spends $120k on a Tesla Model S, three other people need to spend $23k in order for the average to be your $47k.

    However… You should know better about using your Model 3 pricing example. Because you should know that that’s the base price. Nobody buys a stripped down Tesla with a short range battery, single motor, and no options. The average selling price for a 2022 Model 3 from mid-March until a couple of days ago was about $61,500. That’s not far off from the max price of $64k and change. So as with all things BEV … rich man’s toys so far. People don’t want the cheap stuff when it comes to battery cars, so they buy ICE. We both seem to agree that government force will eventually fix that.

    Even people buying the Model S don’t seem to have a high take rate on the base model either. I’m assuming you know this since you have one.

    ===

    If you ever wind down enough to where you want to chat civilly about “the towing problem”, or why there aren’t any viable recreational planing hull boats, much less airliners, ping me. We can even do it by PM. Or about how to do your own BS testing of climate claims. You should never have to rely on blind faith.

    -Peter
    Last edited by pcrussell50; 09-29-2022 at 01:34 PM.
    "padded wonder"
    __________
    the wet:
    Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
    16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
    17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
    13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha

    the dry:
    2003 bmw ///M5
    1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
    and a handful of clunkers

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  11. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow View Post
    ...I am done with this tired conversation.
    Welcome to the Tiki bar of neutral EQ

  12. #413
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    And now California will ban natural gas fueled furnaces.

    The have wild fires and don’t know why?

    Its global warming!
    Not.

    Like everything else in that slime pool of a state, they’re too busy preaching to actually study the facts.

    Their state shares a lot of similarities w/Florida.
    But Fla does controlled burns to reduce/prevent wild fires.

    Ca things trees are people, non gender identifying but people just the same…….

    Yrs ago they talked about seceding from the union.

    Lets send them a suit case!

    What a fkg disaster you tree hugging idiots have created and supported while you drink $12 cups of fkg flavored coffee while having your car drive you to work.

    Move to Ca and start your own country already!
    I'd rather be competitive w/junk I built in my garage than win w/stuff I bought.


    I refuse to allow common sense to interfere w/my boat buying decisions.


    Checkmate 16' 140 Johnson
    Hydrostream 17' Vector FrankenRude I
    Laser 480 (?) 21' w/GT 200
    Glastron Carlson Conquest w/XP 2.6
    Glastron Carlson CVX 20 w/XP 2.6
    24' Sonic w/twin 250 Johnsons
    24' Sonic w/twin 250 HO Johnsons
    19' STV River Rocket w/FrankenRude II
    Allison XR 2002 w/Frankenrude II
    Hydrostream 18' V-King w/Frankenrude II

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  14. #414
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    When so many people flee your state (CA) that you lose a congressional seat... you know you're doing more than a few things wrong!
    Let's go Brandon!

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  16. #415
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    How are the individual states going to replace the lost fuel taxes?

  17. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerabout View Post
    How are the individual states going to replace the lost fuel taxes?
    There will have to be some sort of "road tax" in the event that EV's ever become popular, mainstream transportation.

    But, as of February EV‘s still accounted for less than 1% of the cars & light trucks on the road in the US... and considering the range/charging issues probably way under 1% of the miles driven.
    Let's go Brandon!

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  19. #417
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    A new electric tax for everyone of course!!! Follow America down drain or be a plug and vote for policy changes we had under a real leader.

    Joe

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  21. #418
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    Ya'llz just to rocket surgery an progressive fer a krakka like me. just think I could live in a mid-western state .. thats on the eastern half of the country ..
    Where 30 -40 people get shot every night .. 75 on holliday weekends. Ya'll doin a fine job wiff ya edjumacation and crime prevention ..
    Thems the kind of folks I like to tell .. yes sir, yur turn is 7 miles before ya get to the bridge .. bless their hearts ...



    I liked how one feller said (wiff out copy+paste) how he was gonna leave his place that got hit wiff 140 mph winds this morning, to go up to the St. Johns area to try to take advantage of someone who is seeing 50 mph winds between now and noon tomorrow .. special kind of logic right there ..ta git em to sell fer pennies on the dollar ..

    I like how it was mentioned that if the power goes out, they is plenty of gas and generators ta go around .. ya'll gottta give me a minute my eyes is waterin .. and my sides is hurtin .. ya can't make that stuff up ...

    So I had to run to the industrial complex this mornin. They was cars an trucks on US-1 , but I didn't see no cars and especially no electric $hiz-boxes on the back streets where they was some standin water .. Them e-letrik motors .. they like to run submerged do they ...
    How bout them new fangled big azz cell phone batterys .. they run cooler under water ??? Gotta hand it to them smart fellers for savin the planet and poisoning it at the same time .. "super-tards" them fellerz is ..

    I remember campin as a kid. We had to use this stuff called kindling in order to git the fire started. Seems like no matter how long ya held a match to a log, darn thing wouldn't light ... I rekkon them fellers out west and some east of the west never went campin ..

    I live in a place they call the "Treasure Coast" .. just south of me they call that area the "Gold Coast" . Seems that a bunch of ships were caught in some terrible storms and sunk .. but how could that be .. that was two ta three hunnert years before that industrial revolution come about. You know that one that produces all that food for trees to eat and produce oxygen ..

    I ain't never been to Hi-Y-ee , but I'll bet the climate was purtty warm when all that molten lave flowed out .. that turned into to rock for folks to build they houses on..

    I see no one met me at Stuart Beach after my doctor appt. like I asked. I was hope in to see one of you stop the ocean , and make it curl back the other way and roll out to sea ...
    Dimbiden .. is spendin $830,000,000,000.00 .. all that fool needs to do is go out there right now .. ole Ma Nature can do what she want's .. when she want's ... ain't a phukkin thing that no common horse thief can do about it ...

    2.5 million people without power right now .. anyone know where I can plug in a POS Tesla for the next three weeks ... Pfffttttttt .... dip-squirts


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  23. #419
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    So I’m guessing even way before man the earth has always had just one consistent climate? LOl.
    Last edited by Stoker boy; 09-29-2022 at 01:37 PM.

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  25. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcrussell50 View Post
    If you ever wind down enough to where you want to chat civilly about “the towing problem”, or why there aren’t any viable recreational planing hull boats, much less airliners, ping me. We can even do it by PM. Or about how to do your own BS testing of climate claims. You should never have to rely on blind faith.

    -Peter
    This offer still stands. Not only to Brad, but to anyone. There is much (most of it, really) in global warming that the ordinary person can look at and decide for himself, without having to rely on faith. I can help you plant your seeds and you can grow them any way you like. It might or might not change your mind, but at least you will have formed your own opinions from a position of being informed instead of from being told.

    PM or out in the open. I'm good with either.

    -Peter
    "padded wonder"
    __________
    the wet:
    Hydrostream Viper, 140 v4 crossflow, some Raker props
    16' Baja/Tahiti/Sidewinder clone, 135 v4 crossflow
    17' boston whaler alert, 90 merc fourstroke
    13' boston whaler, 40hp yamaha

    the dry:
    2003 bmw ///M5
    1993 mustang/griggs racing road race car
    and a handful of clunkers

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